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2021 RA championship. Displacementgate 2.0 and compression talk


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1 hour ago, Bandit said:

That's why the claim of busted balls is comical.

 

They knew how much fuel they were putting in it.

 

Willing to bet there is not one displacement ball in that cell. It's not unusual for cells to fill under the rated capacity as foam(they claim it doesn't but don't see how that is physically possible) and pumps take up space.

The balls were there but they came from the manufacturer with no plugs, according to Brian.  So I guess that made them ok in his eyes.  But yeah, of course they knew how much gas was going in.  

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Just now, Ray Franck said:

So I rant about guys getting by with + 2.8 gallons of gas with no penalty and all you guys want to B about is OCTANE. 

  Question who had race gas in impound ? 

  Answer no one, not a problem 

  Again please focus on a real issue.

If no race gas around then why the interest in scoping pistons?

 

But yes, with few restrictions on fuel fillers guys will take it to extremes gaining a sometimes large advantage. There IS a rule however;

 

9.10.3.4. All fuel lines must be routed in the most direct (shortest distance) path to and from source/termination point.

 

What car requires 6 feet for that? Tell them to shorten it or EC.

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4 minutes ago, Jer said:

The balls were there but they came from the manufacturer with no plugs, according to Brian.  So I guess that made them ok in his eyes.  But yeah, of course they knew how much gas was going in.  

Wonder if they were going for Nate's controlled leak plan but they drained too fast. 🤣

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5 minutes ago, Bandit said:

If no race gas around then why the interest in scoping pistons?

 

But yes, with few restrictions on fuel fillers guys will take it to extremes gaining a sometimes large advantage. There IS a rule however;

 

9.10.3.4. All fuel lines must be routed in the most direct (shortest distance) path to and from source/termination point.

 

What car requires 6 feet for that? Tell them to shorten it or EC.

Teams have moved the fill point to the front of the car with the tank in the back and then relied on the "direct route", all six feet of it, to get by the rules.  Ray is right.  It needs to be fixed.  

Can anyone tell me why our two main sources of info for swaps, Edmunds and Automobile-catalog both list the '95 eclipse at 15.9 gallons, but google says 16.9?  

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5 minutes ago, Jer said:

Teams have moved the fill point to the front of the car with the tank in the back and then relied on the "direct route", all six feet of it, to get by the rules.  Ray is right.  It needs to be fixed.  

See... that’s where Lemons does things right. I have heard stories about lemons tech inspectors (haven’t raced lemons)... within the realm of lemons fuel rules (which I do not know), if a lemons tech guy saw something like a “directly routed front to rear filler neck” they would smack you with 10 penalty laps on the spot. “I know what you are doing, you know what you are doing, and here is your penalty. I don’t care if it’s technically allowed per the rulebook!”

Edited by enginerd
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Just now, enginerd said:

See... that’s where Lemons does things right. I have heard stories about lemons tech inspectors... within the realm of lemons fuel rules (which I do not know), if a lemons tech guy saw something like that they would smack you with 10 penalty laps on the spot. “I know what you are doing, you know what you are doing, and here is your penalty!”

I don't think there is any fuel cell limit in Lemons

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1 minute ago, enginerd said:

See... that’s where Lemons does things right. I have heard stories about lemons tech inspectors... within the realm of lemons fuel rules (which I do not know), if a lemons tech guy saw something like that they would smack you with 10 penalty laps on the spot. “I know what you are doing, you know what you are doing, and here is your penalty!”

No argument.  Sometimes their methods are elegant, other times they are just stupid.  A jug of 26 year old aged rum gets those laps removed.  

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18 minutes ago, Ray Franck said:

So I rant about guys getting by with + 2.8 gallons of gas with no penalty and all you guys want to B about is OCTANE. 

  Question who had race gas in impound ? 

  Answer no one, not a problem 

  Again please focus on a real issue.

I thought Tuttle admitted to using race gas. The rules say he can. Besides we're trying to get this tread going....... :)

18 minutes ago, Ray Franck said:

So I rant about guys getting by with + 2.8 gallons of gas with no penalty and all you guys want to B about is OCTANE. 

  Question who had race gas in impound ? 

  Answer no one, not a problem 

  Again please focus on a real issue.

I thought Tuttle admitted to using race gas. The rules say he can. Besides we're trying to get this tread going....... :)

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5 minutes ago, Jer said:

Teams have moved the fill point to the front of the car with the tank in the back and then relied on the "direct route", all six feet of it, to get by the rules.  Ray is right.  It needs to be fixed.  

 

Well, that is a pretty easy one. Make clear the interpretation used by CC is shortest distance from either side of car.

 

No need to make a new rule and wait til next year. Just issue a clarification.

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5 minutes ago, enginerd said:

See... that’s where Lemons does things right. I have heard stories about lemons tech inspectors (haven’t raced lemons)... within the realm of lemons fuel rules (which I do not know), if a lemons tech guy saw something like a “directly routed front to rear filler neck” they would smack you with 10 penalty laps on the spot. “I know what you are doing, you know what you are doing, and here is your penalty. I don’t care if it’s technically allowed per the rulebook!”

CC does have a "spirit/intent of the rules" Nascaresque clause, but it only applies to DQ's.

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Quote

3.H.1 General Fuel System Regs. All fuel systems, including OE fuel tanks and aftermarket fuel cells, must be sound and in good working order. Maximum allowed capacity is 24 gallons or less. Fuel tanks or cells must be completely behind, or completely in front of, the driver (unless OE parts in their OE locations). No second fuel tanks allowed (unless OE parts in their OE locations). OE tanks must retain all OE systems (filler, mounts, vents, etc.).

 

Quote

Fuel Systems can be the vehicle’s OEM gas tank (with venting) or an aftermarket SFI-rated fuel cell with rubber molded bladder. FUEL CELL + AUXILIARY TANKS + SURGE TANK = TOTAL ONBOARD FUEL CAPACITY. FUEL CAPACITY IS LIMITED TO 24 GALLONS

Both Lemons and LDRL are 24 gallon capacity. 

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3 hours ago, skierman64 said:

 

How is that judged?

Typically if you are pulling away from the field prior to green flag that is an indicator...

 

As noted above starters typically want a constant speed up to the green flag. Karting, Sprint Races, and other endurance races are done that way. I've never seen a race were the lead car took off prior to the green and the race proceeded. Typically they make you do another lap and form up. 

 

On the other hand I've also never seen a race where a car hits the breaks while the lead car pulls away. 

 

Both scenarios are very odd. This really isn't that difficult. Racing starts on green. 

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1 hour ago, Ray Franck said:

   THERE IS NO FUEL OCTANE RULE. There is no problem here with whatever fuel you want to use, again not a problem.  As a board please focus on a real problem allowing 6' long 3" diameter fill necks that hold 2.8 gallons of fuel at no penalty or regulation. Also it is dangerous as a homemade fill should never be allowed on track full of fuel. Please pass the submitted petition requiring the overflow drain on all cell and altered fill neck cars.

  I just had to disqualify a team for having .7 gallon over capacity in his cell, his car has a 7" long fill neck as he opens his trunk and fuels directly to the cell. Meanwhile another team that may have a legal cell capacity uses a fill neck that holds 2.8 gallons rides on skirting a gray area it is not right.

 #drainthefuelneck

For goodness sake could you at least do your math right when you are trying to make a point? lol

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34 minutes ago, veris said:

Typically if you are pulling away from the field prior to green flag that is an indicator...

 

As noted above starters typically want a constant speed up to the green flag. Karting, Sprint Races, and other endurance races are done that way. I've never seen a race were the lead car took off prior to the green and the race proceeded. Typically they make you do another lap and form up. 

 

On the other hand I've also never seen a race where a car hits the breaks while the lead car pulls away. 

 

Both scenarios are very odd. This really isn't that difficult. Racing starts on green. 

I agree that on the race start the P1 car would hold the speed and keep the pack together.

 

On a pace car restart, the leader would get to go once the pace car is on pit lane

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Help me understand this situation. Multi car team correct? Arrive and Drive team? Cheated some how to be DQ. Someone with money (two cars) had to cheat to win. Pretty sad and embarrassing. 

 

Why does money multi car team cheat?  While some of us struggle to just get to the track. Uhaul trailer, one set of tires and all of your friends smell like oil and gas at the end of the day. They just get DQ. How about they be put on hold for a year for not following the intent of Champ Car. It will make others think before they cheat. I am just trying to pass tech per the rules and that's tuff at times. Cheating is another level. I watched the race. Tuttle seems have been racing here a while and is a favorite with Champ Car. Maybe Tuttle has out grown us with his  pro drivers and need to go to a different series. The club keeps having issues with these money teams. Looks like a common thread that our club management should address and quickly.

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2 hours ago, 333 Kinkle said:

While some of us struggle to just get to the track. Uhaul trailer, one set of tires and all of your friends smell like oil and gas at the end of the day.

Car that got the eventual single race W Sunday arrived and left on an open trailer :)

174420943_2594040504231763_5322155386110208990_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=58c789&_nc_ohc=G1NLmeN3YiwAX-GNWyC&_nc_ad=z-m&_nc_cid=0&_nc_ht=scontent.xx&tp=6&oh=c9d0d1793aa84b0958c04b7469305641&oe=60A536E3

 

And uses child labor to save on maintenance

175141572_281175270209300_4523506813359399919_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=58c789&_nc_ohc=ewV7SjXct-UAX89hIcc&_nc_ad=z-m&_nc_cid=0&_nc_ht=scontent.xx&tp=7&oh=bb6545018f696baa4ef6fda1336e65d8&oe=60A1B4D4

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3 minutes ago, enginerd said:

Car that got the W Sunday arrived and left on an open trailer :)

174420943_2594040504231763_5322155386110208990_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=58c789&_nc_ohc=G1NLmeN3YiwAX-GNWyC&_nc_ad=z-m&_nc_cid=0&_nc_ht=scontent.xx&tp=6&oh=c9d0d1793aa84b0958c04b7469305641&oe=60A536E3

GMT-400 tow rig? Nice.

 

Tuttle just seems to like to cheat. Wouldn't say that if not for Valvecovergate, but that's twice they have done the blatant versus creative.

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Just now, Bandit said:

GMT-400 tow rig? Nice.

 

Tuttle just seems to like to cheat. Wouldn't say that if not for Valvecovergate, but that's twice they have done the blatant versus creative.

Not sure what model the truck is (not mine), we had to get a tow from Robin Bank since Andrew was pulling the CRX with our shared hauler (the chevy shuttle bus thing on the left).

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If the cheaters were better cheaters and not get caught. Then the car that got the W on Sunday would have been second. They missed also getting all the accolades they deserve for being a true winner. Should have heard Champ Car say what a great team Tuttle is how great racer Tuttle is on the streaming. No honor or integrity with Tuttle. The trust bank is empty.

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1 hour ago, Ray Franck said:

So I rant about guys getting by with + 2.8 gallons of gas with no penalty and all you guys want to B about is OCTANE. 

  Question who had race gas in impound ? 

  Answer no one, not a problem 

  Again please focus on a real issue.

Ray, I appreciate your thankless job.  You listened to my complaints about the plastic they were using and I feel like we had an understanding.  The way the rule book is written saying most direct route, well that falls on tech to say a 6ft. 3" fuel tube is unsafe and then point out what you feel is the most direct route.  The only complaint I would have is if a team is using the stock location and the cell is located in the stock location as well, but that could be your call to make.  You guys get the burden of not being everybodies friends when it comes to the rule book, I do not envy you for that.

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  • Bandit changed the title to 2021 RA championship. Displacementgate 2.0 and compression talk
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