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2021 RA championship. Displacementgate 2.0 and compression talk


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2 minutes ago, Jer said:

 It's not codified.  But in all of my 100+ races, the lead car determined when to hit the gas after the pace car exited.  This is nothing new.  Sometimes they bottle the field up, other times they take off right away.  

 

Guess I'm not usually that close to the front. 

In most of my 50+ races in this series, the field just circulated under FCY. Pace car (re)starts are relatively recent (at least at the tracks I frequent)

 

In any case, you asked what I would do and now you know. 

I will continue to expect the unexpected in this series. 

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18 minutes ago, Chris Huggins said:

The flagger took the yellows down when the pace car pulled off.  No flag is go flag so Troy went.  

 

The double yellows were out well after troy left. I watch them get pulled down as he dove off over the hill with the rest of the field stacked up.

 

 

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Commenting on start but personal opinions, not rules or anything: 

 

- lead car (visceral) sets the pace

- that pace is NOT race pace until you can actually see the green flag at S/F.
- That pace should be a gradual, 50% throttle acceleration all the way until you see the green waving.

- every subsequent car should attempt to maintain the gap ahead no matter how fast or slow the car ahead is going

 

So in my opinion, if Troy “gunned it” when the pace car pulled off, he was too early / too fast. And Tuttle screwed up as well by not attempting to follow at the same pace 

Edited by enginerd
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2 minutes ago, ABR-Glen said:

Guess I'm not usually that close to the front. 

In most of my 50+ races in this series, the field just circulated under FCY. Pace car (re)starts are relatively recent (at least at the tracks I frequent)

 

In any case, you asked what I would do and now you know. 

I will continue to expect the unexpected in this series. 

Now you know what to expect. I've been that lead car, multiple times.  You take off when it's most advantageous for you to do so.  Well, I sure as hell have.  

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Lead car sets the pace, but if they are WOT before the green flag it is a false start. Typically you should be constant speed.

 

Not sure how fast the leader was going. IMO Tuttle should have been black flagged for the start. Leader maybe, depending on their acceleration. 

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10 minutes ago, Gkuhn41 said:

 

The double yellows were out well after troy left. I watch them get pulled down as he dove off over the hill with the rest of the field stacked up.

 

 

Go to 34:45 in this video. This is Saturday starting P4. 

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30 minutes ago, skierman64 said:

 

that's a dumb, dumb, dumb rule in the rulebook.  it needs to go because it's not enforced and no one that's actually racing does it.  And when someone does do it, it nearly causes accidents.  
 

I watched a local yellow at T8 later in the race on Saturday, 2 cars out of the entire field actually slowed significantly for the flag.  What was the silver/red e36 sedan, and the other was maybe the slower MR2 (I could be wrong on that) Both of them caused a 5 or 6 car slow train past the spun car on the outside of 8 unnecessarily.  

Champ needs to update the yellow flag procedures to something more realistic.  They are awful.  

 

I came through turn 7 at about 60mph having slowed for the waving yellow being shown and the e36 had slowed down to 20mph going down the hill to 8.....we went past the incident at 10mph.  It was a bit excessive on their part...

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11 minutes ago, Jer said:

Now you know what to expect. I've been that lead car, multiple times.  You take off when it's most advantageous for you to do so.  Well, I sure as hell have.  

 

That's how I do it. Green flag only means no passing. The lead car determines when to go. 

Just now, hotchkis23 said:

I came through turn 7 at about 60mph having slowed for the waving yellow being shown and the e36 had slowed down to 20mph going down the hill to 8.....we went past the incident at 10mph.  It was a bit excessive on their part...

 

That's when I was watching from the hill. 

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So, concerning taking pictures of pistons on Saturday.

 

Just what is going to be a pass/fail here? Not all rebuilder pistons look identical to factory. And saying that, who has pictures of all the stock pistons to compare?

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So to add some more comments that I overheard from the Tuttle team regarding the start....Apparently at Daytona they took the start and did what Troy did.  They were black flagged for "passing the pace car" when it was driving down the pit in lane.  So, according to Brian, his drivers are told they have to go slow until they see the green....Not sure I buy it, but this was what he explained to be the reason. 

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2 minutes ago, Bandit said:

So, concerning taking pictures of pistons on Saturday.

 

Just what is going to be a pass/fail here? Not all rebuilder pistons look identical to factory. And saying that, who has pictures of all the stock pistons to compare?

I think it was a fishing expedition as Bill told me "gee it looks like you might be pushing some oil on our 160 race hour motor" I asked what he was really looking for and didn't get much of a solid answer other then looking to see if high compression on a particular car or two.

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4 hours ago, hotchkis23 said:

Well.....that was brought up a few years back and stated if you jack the car up, leave it on the stands, then start the fuel process as normal, finish and put the cap on, then lower the car, it was kosher. 

All the more reason for a set of air jacks. 😂

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3 minutes ago, hotchkis23 said:

So to add some more comments that I overheard from the Tuttle team regarding the start....Apparently at Daytona they took the start and did what Troy did.  They were black flagged for "passing the pace car" when it was driving down the pit in lane.  So, according to Brian, his drivers are told they have to go slow until they see the green....Not sure I buy it, but this was what he explained to be the reason. 

 

So either the race director or Tuttle messed up Daytona. If the pace car is off the racing surface and on the pit lane entry he should not have been penalized. However with recent events being what they are, I tend to believe that the pace car was not on pit lane yet. 

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6 minutes ago, Slugworks Paul said:

How is yellow flag speed judged?

 

Poorly on all accounts. There's no way to measure either (WOT or yellow flag speed). It's arbitrary and therefore unenforceable.  

 

See my comment on the yellow flag rule above. 

Edited by skierman64
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1 minute ago, skierman64 said:

 

Poorly on all accounts. There's no way to measure either. It's arbitrary and therefore unenforceable.  

 

See my comment on the yellow flag rule above. 

We should get rid of yellow flags.

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1 minute ago, 55mini said:

I think it was a fishing expedition as Bill told me "gee it looks like you might be pushing some oil on our 160 race hour motor" I asked what he was really looking for and didn't get much of a solid answer other then looking to see if high compression on a particular car or two.

Well, that's the thing. There is no compression rule, and can't be as they all vary, and decking blocks and shaving heads for comp is 100% legal.

 

Is a flattop rebuilder piston in place of slightly dished going to get a guy tossed? Seems ripe for interpretation.

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1 minute ago, skierman64 said:

 

Or rewrite the CCES yellow flag rules to something more realistic. 

I'm sure they'd love suggestions, let's hear it!

Just now, Bandit said:

Well, that's the thing. There is no compression rule, and can't be as they all vary, and decking blocks and shaving heads for comp is 100% legal.

 

Is a flattop rebuilder piston in place of slightly dished going to get a guy tossed? Seems ripe for interpretation.

If it's not stock geometry, ima say yes.

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I've raced at RA many times.  From the pit on any start or restart the cars are at full song as they pass the start finish line.  

 

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Just now, Jer said:

I've raced at RA many times.  From the pit on any start or restart the cars are at full song as they pass the start finish line.  

 

That's because you can see the green flag just after you crest the hill, and that's usually when they wave it.

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50 minutes ago, theblue said:

it take balls to go racing, make sure you bring enough.   too soon?

well if he had bigger balls he'd be legal...

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