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2021 RA championship. Displacementgate 2.0 and compression talk


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8 minutes ago, 55mini said:

Thats good now we will us a Russian meter?

You can't test fuel and disqualify teams using a piece of junk that is of dubious value at best and at worst is nothing more than a scam. 

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1 minute ago, Snorman said:

You can't test fuel and disqualify teams using a piece of junk that is of dubious value at best and at worst is nothing more than a scam. 

Thats why you test it and make sure it works.  

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CC just needs 5 Hunsackers with 93 octane. Paint them a nice bright, obnoxious color of green so everyone knows what they are.

 

Any team failing the sniff test will be required to fill their car, during the race, from the CC "test cans".

 

Refusal=move to EC.

 

Marked lap time increase due to the computer pulling timing trying to save motor?=move to EC

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2 minutes ago, Snorman said:

You can't test fuel and disqualify teams using a piece of junk that is of dubious value at best and at worst is nothing more than a scam. 

Here's another one. Used for $7,500. They are 20,000 new. They other gauge would certainly distinguish between 93 & 110. The Russian gauge is accurate to 1.5 octane.

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Just now, Jer said:

Thats why you test it and make sure it works.  

Even if it doesn't work once it's worthless. 

Hey...one of us wrote the petition for octane limits a few years ago that the BOD shot down. There is no new solution for at-home octane testing units today. 

At best, you can have a legitimate lab test samples (which would 100% have to be strictly controlled to avoid any accusations of impropriety) and issue warnings to teams IMO

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Just now, hotrod said:

Here's another one. Used for $7,500. They are 20,000 new. They other gauge would certainly distinguish between 93 & 110. The Russian gauge is accurate to 1.5 octane.

I'm sure there are lab-quality pieces of equipment out there that cost lab-quality prices and require lab-quality calibration and maintenance. 

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2 minutes ago, Snorman said:

Hey...one of us wrote the petition for octane limits a few years ago that the BOD shot down. There is no new solution for at-home octane testing units today. 

We only shot it down because we could not find a viable way to test as we have discussed. Sometimes the fear of being tested is enough.  Just like now, will my team be the next one tested for fuel capacity?  Will my team be the one they check stroke and bore on?  etc.  

Edited by Jer
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Just now, chip said:

I has to be done at the track- you can't go sending samples off to a testing lab

I would tend to agree with this. 

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1 minute ago, Jer said:

We only shot it down because we could not find a viable way to test as we have discussed. Sometimes the fear of being tested is enough.  Just like now, will my team be the next one tested for fuel capacity?  Will my team be the one they check stroke and bore on?  etc.  

Will like to see the bore checks.

 

Going to increase tech to 4 hours so guys can pull heads?

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Just now, Bandit said:

Will like to see the bore checks.

 

Going to increase tech to 4 hours so guys can pull heads?

Depending on the car it can be pretty simple.  And it was done last fall at a race.  

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1 minute ago, Jer said:

We only shot it down because we could not find a viable way to test as we have discussed. Sometimes the fear of being tested is enough.  Just like now, will my team be the next one tested for fuel capacity?  Will my team be the one they check stroke and bore on?  etc.  

Is zero-decking a block and decking heads for increased compression now illegal? Because if it's not, is there really a need to eliminate race fuel? To me, two years after Snake submitted that petition, this seems like a moot point if the series is doing borescopes and inspecting engines for domed, high compression racing pistons (non-OE/OE-spec). 

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Just now, Snorman said:

Is zero-decking a block and decking heads for increased compression now illegal? Because if it's not, is there really a need to eliminate race fuel? To me, two years after Snake submitted that petition, this seems like a moot point if the series is doing borescopes and inspecting engines for domed, high compression racing pistons (non-OE/OE-spec). 

Rules say if you can deck the head and block using hand tools, it's penalty free.  

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Just now, Jer said:

Depending on the car it can be pretty simple.  And it was done last fall at a race.  

A bore test?

 

A stroke test can be simple and that was done last last year.

 

Either one needs to be able to be done on any car. Not just those that are easy. And engines that do not have centrally located spark plugs are not so easy.

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1 minute ago, Jer said:

Rules say if you can deck the head and block using hand tools, it's penalty free.  

Can you point out exactly where in the rule book it says that? 

 

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1 minute ago, Bandit said:

A bore test?

 

A stroke test can be simple and that was done last last year.

 

Either one needs to be able to be done on any car. Not just those that are easy. And engines that do not have centrally located spark plugs are not so easy.

Not arguing with you.  But my point is once something is tested for, it could happen to YOU too.  That's a deterrent.  

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Posted (edited)

Gonna take forever to ball hone a cylinder out to 60 over.....

 

Point is, decking and shaving are machining operations typically done on a quality rebuild. Not banned by the rules and not required to be done with hand tools in your garage.

 

An octane limit just limits how much compression a guy can build into his motor.

 

eta-If bore checks are coming better increase tech time some more.

Edited by Bandit
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11 minutes ago, Snorman said:

Is zero-decking a block and decking heads for increased compression now illegal? Because if it's not, is there really a need to eliminate race fuel? To me, two years after Snake submitted that petition, this seems like a moot point if the series is doing borescopes and inspecting engines for domed, high compression racing pistons (non-OE/OE-spec). 

Tech told me factory service limits only.  It needs to be in the factory service manual or its not allowed as far as machining.

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33 minutes ago, skierman64 said:

 

Read SCCA, NASA, AER, WRL yellow flag rules and pick the best one.  

WRL doesn't cover it in their rule book. I don't look in the other rulebooks because i don't have time to navigate hundreds of pages to find the relevant subtext to help you out.

You're the one complaining about the rules, you do the work and the burden is on you to substantiate what you're saying.

Edited by Slugworks Paul
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3 minutes ago, LuckyKid said:

Tech told me factory service limits only.  It needs to be in the factory service manual or its not allowed as far as machining.

Okay. That's not in the BCCR either, lol. 

Seems there are lots of things in the BCCR that were supposedly rules. 

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Just now, Snorman said:

Okay. That's not in the BCCR either, lol. 

Seems there are lots of things in the BCCR that were supposedly rules. 

That's frustrating.  We should not be enforcing rules that aren't rules.  :(  It's a focus of the Board right now.  

 

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  • Technical Advisory Committee
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, LuckyKid said:

Tech told me factory service limits only.  It needs to be in the factory service manual or its not allowed as far as machining.

Show me a factory service manual that sets a limit on how much a cylinder head can be decked. SMH 

Edited by mcoppola
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