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How were or are VPI's arrived at


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It's the labor costs that get you, by the time you buy all the required replacement panels then and then add in even reasonable labor to cut out and weld in new panels you start getting to the cost of the repo bodies.  

 

How good of a deal can you get the roached out bodies for?  It sure would be interesting.  We could just take everything out of the corvette and put in a 1st gen...  It would be super impressive to see a 1st gen at the front of a race and putting laps on the newer cars out there. 

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I believe they use one of these.   

Do it, then let me know what race I can drive it at!

I wouldn't say a Saab is really fun to drive, helping build and drive a car for under $5,000 and then winning Daytona and WGI against a lot of fast expensive cars is fun though.  And its still more fu

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22 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said:

What is your tolerance for tossing it in the crusher?
 

The stupid clean first gen mustang running champ in the east, sustained rear 1/4 panel damage that would make a restoration difficult,(whole rear clip shifted @ the rear windshield) they still race, but personally think there are better uses for classics then the track.


It would be hard to justify spending $$ when a Saab 9-3 or Infinity J30 can be had for probably under $1,000. 

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37 minutes ago, Bandit said:

Beautiful car.  

 

That $5k (guessing.) front subframe is only ten points. 🤣

 

One would think the repro bodies would knock the price down on rough, non rare VIN/body plated, shells but doesn't seem to have had much effect.

 

With enough searching a useable 2nd gen, especially a later one, can be found somewhat reasonable, but 1st gens are nuts.

 

10 points!!!  im in...

subframe-camaro.jpg

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17 minutes ago, smitham32803 said:

It's the labor costs that get you, by the time you buy all the required replacement panels then and then add in even reasonable labor to cut out and weld in new panels you start getting to the cost of the repo bodies.  

 

How good of a deal can you get the roached out bodies for?  It sure would be interesting.  We could just take everything out of the corvette and put in a 1st gen...  It would be super impressive to see a 1st gen at the front of a race and putting laps on the newer cars out there. 

Just the floor assembly and stock front subframe are about 3200 before truck freight. A guy can probably pick up a stock sub pretty cheap however as guys swap in aftermarket.

 

Would depend on the guys mood that day for the shell, but probably into it with roach body, floor, firewall, used sub around $4000.

 

End up being pretty expensive overall as one would need to source everything beyond that as well unless he has a well stocked junk pile. Rear end, trans, suspension, etc etc etc.

 

Saying that, my thought would be to assemble the floor, firewall and front sub and cage that. Then slip the gutted body over it much like a "full frame" car is done.

 

Building a race car versus a pro touring car would cut down on a lot of the labor, but it would still be a very big job.

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My truth meter is bending towards the B.S. side. 😉    You would not lower yourself and wheel a domestic piece!!

 

A man of you stature, education and reputation would have a lot of explaining to do to your leader hoser colleagues for such a gauche act in public. The scarlet letter!!!! The Shame!!!!! Heck I may have a month long bender if I see you driving domestic. 


 

 

4 hours ago, enginerd said:

We should put a cage in that turd and race it...

 

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16 minutes ago, Andrew D Johnson said:


It would be hard to justify spending $$ when a Saab 9-3 or Infinity J30 can be had for probably under $1,000. 

Depends on the person.

 

I'd have no enthusiasm working on either of those cars even if they may be fun to drive.

 

Besides, lots of things are hard to justify when spending thousands, no matter the car, for a trophy.

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8 minutes ago, Bandit said:

Depends on the person.

 

I'd have no enthusiasm working on either of those cars even if they may be fun to drive.

 

Besides, lots of things are hard to justify when spending thousands, no matter the car, for a trophy.


I wouldn't say a Saab is really fun to drive, helping build and drive a car for under $5,000 and then winning Daytona and WGI against a lot of fast expensive cars is fun though.  And its still more fun to work on and drive than a Civic, lol. 

image.png.1239684c78de49fa2678662244b1f9bf.png
 

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3 minutes ago, mender said:

1st gen can be made to work very well but 2nd gen is better.

First gen is lighter, Second gen has better geometry and aero.

 

First gen wins on looks and cool factor.

 

Same fuel for both prior to '74 along with better engine options.

 

I kinda like the idea of an old unswapped anything car.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Bandit said:

Beautiful car.  

 

That $5k (guessing.) front subframe is only ten points. 🤣

 

One would think the repro bodies would knock the price down on rough, non rare VIN/body plated, shells but doesn't seem to have had much effect.

 

With enough searching a useable 2nd gen, especially a later one, can be found somewhat reasonable, but 1st gens are nuts.

yes so now I can grab an old mopar, ditch the t-bar, install a 5-6 rack for 10 points. I wonder how hard it would be to hang Gen II sheet metal on a Gen III?

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51 minutes ago, Andrew D Johnson said:

helping build and drive a car for under $5,000 and then winning Daytona and WGI against a lot of fast expensive cars is fun though.

1982 Monte Carlo $1200

5.3 LS $350

AR5 trans $250

C6 Brakes $800

various suspension parts $500

 

Obviously other expenses as well, but same as any other car.

 

Cheap and fun. Swap calc goes tilt. No beauno.

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37 minutes ago, Bandit said:

1982 Monte Carlo $1200

5.3 LS $350

AR5 trans $250

C6 Brakes $800

various suspension parts $500

 

Obviously other expenses as well, but same as any other car.

 

Cheap and fun. Swap calc goes tilt. No beauno.

Just build a 305...nobody will care what you do to the engine. Easy enough to make 300+hp if you use the right parts. Did the 82 Carlo's come with an aluminum intake w/ the 4bbl? 

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7 minutes ago, TiredBirds said:

Just build a 305...nobody will care what you do to the engine. Easy enough to make 300+hp if you use the right parts. Did the 82 Carlo's come with an aluminum intake w/ the 4bbl? 

I was just pointing out something pretty cheap and easy that isn't allowed.

 

Sure, a 305 can make plenty of power with a lot of work and expense. It will have more stress than the 5.3 and be more likely to go boom. When it does you go through another one versus just pulling another from a wrecked Silverado and stabbing it in.

 

That 305 costs the same to do as a 350 or even 400 does, so going that way it would be wise to go bigger. Easier to make the same or more power and less stress on the engine.

 

A stock junkyard 5.3 is easily the low cost and easy replacement option however. That's all I was getting at.

 

And no, Monte did not have AL 4bbl intake.

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49 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said:

Metric Monte circa 1985 does have aluminum four barrel intake, as for 305 versus 400 $ to build versus on the track,You keep forgetting about fuel mileage...

He asked about '82. 

 

Not forgetting mileage at all. However, a 305 putting out similar HP to a 5.3 will burn just as much gas. A typical 5.3 is around 350 gross HP at the crank. 

 

But concerning mileage,  it's getting a 170 net HP (stock) 400 SBC. 50 point swap before "changes". While this may seem to be even more of a gas guzzler, a 305 will have to spin a lot more rpm, which burns lots of gas, to make the same HP and will never churn out torque like a 400.

 

5500rpm max with over 500 lb ft of torque with 2.73 gears will do ok on mileage.

 

As I recall, engines are most efficient at their torque peak.

 

eta-It's similar thinking to what Chevy did with the C5R and C6R with the intake restricted 427's they ran. Those only revved to 5400.

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5 hours ago, Bandit said:

First gen is lighter, Second gen has better geometry and aero.

 

First gen wins on looks and cool factor.

 

Same fuel for both prior to '74 along with better engine options.

 

I kinda like the idea of an old unswapped anything car.

 

 

That's my GTI ! 😆

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13 hours ago, Bandit said:

He asked about '82. 

 

Not forgetting mileage at all. However, a 305 putting out similar HP to a 5.3 will burn just as much gas. A typical 5.3 is around 350 gross HP at the crank. 

 

But concerning mileage,  it's getting a 170 net HP (stock) 400 SBC. 50 point swap before "changes". While this may seem to be even more of a gas guzzler, a 305 will have to spin a lot more rpm, which burns lots of gas, to make the same HP and will never churn out torque like a 400.

 

5500rpm max with over 500 lb ft of torque with 2.73 gears will do ok on mileage.

 

As I recall, engines are most efficient at their torque peak.

 

eta-It's similar thinking to what Chevy did with the C5R and C6R with the intake restricted 427's they ran. Those only revved to 5400.

yes they al cost the same to build which is why if this 305 goes, a 350 will be the replacement, but we'll have to take a 25 point hit for trans, as no stick was available with the 350 in Gen III F-bodies. As for gas, we burn 15 gallons in about an hour and a half. Never thought about the small block 400.... But for now we can say we are racing a #'s matching WS-6 car. lol  

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On 5/4/2021 at 7:48 AM, hcsi99 said:

We can't comment on the post that bill made regarding the VPI update so I'll ask it here.  @Bill Strong, what were the changes to the VPI list this time around?  Could we maybe get a red copy with the changes?  Thanks!

 

Bill don't know poop. He just knows where stickers go

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On 5/4/2021 at 10:07 PM, Cam Benty said:

The six speed usually is quite good. I believe Ford engineers were betting the 10 speeds would not be used for serious towing. Hopefully this is not the case and they get the issues worked out. 
 

Offer a stout manual and no more problems. To many posers buying F150’s. They would not lower themselves and shift their own gears. 150 owners are almost as bad as BMW owners. They would rather drive a heep with an impressive badge than drive a boring reliable car. The 150 I drove was seriously impressive other than the rattle from the transmission. The only thing it did not have was a direct line to the White House. 
 

 

 

Buddy of mine bought  a new one last year and the 10 speed acted up immediately.  He was pretty pissed but kept the truck.

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On 5/5/2021 at 1:54 PM, Andrew D Johnson said:


It would be hard to justify spending $$ when a Saab 9-3 or Infinity J30 can be had for probably under $1,000. 

It's a free world, and no different than someone running a boxster or something else that cost a few bucks to get into.  You can still get early mustangs for less than 5k in crappy condition.  I don't know that I would cut up a really nice fastback just to race champ car but I wouldn't be averse to doing it to my 67 that I paid $1400 for 5-6 years ago... It's a C code 289 auto but I have a toploader for it as well. It would be a little more involved than just putting a cage in a 20 year old BMW but still probably not to bad I'd think.  Suspension and small tank are the drawbacks. The SVRA mustangs weigh 2700 lbs, but that is the min weight.

12496469_439789192894036_6976651058758842220_o.jpg

12401817_439789196227369_4852968956873188096_o.jpg

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On 5/5/2021 at 12:54 PM, smitham32803 said:

I'm ready, have a 68 project in the garage with c5 brakes already and a speedteh front subframe.  

 

The real problem is how much these cars cost now days.  They are now selling repo bodies for almost $10K so an original one is getting stupid.  A decent roller is somewhere between 10K-15K.   

68 camaro.jpg

Try finding a decent early 911 shell for 10K LMAO  Ford must have outsold GM 2:1 Mustangs to Camaros.

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