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How were or are VPI's arrived at


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23 minutes ago, 67Mustang said:

With a small tank, you might need to go stupid fast.....

76 minutes per stint works at tracks where the pointy end cars can't make 2 hours as long as you are a few seconds faster per lap. Assuming no FCY to complicate things. 🙂

 

Had to take my shoes off for that, but should be close.

 

 

Edited by Bandit
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Still can't make sense of these values. How is every pre 80 911 from 110 bhp to 204 bhp all set at 750 points, the 85 Carrera with 214 hp set at 1500 points and yet the 97 -99 boxter with 205 hp and 100 times better suspension only 475 points?????????????   Someone please riddle me that crap and make sense while your doing it....

 

 

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9 minutes ago, 67Mustang said:

Still can't make sense of these values. How is every pre 80 911 from 110 bhp to 204 bhp all set at 750 points, the 85 Carrera with 214 hp set at 1500 points and yet the 97 -99 boxter with 205 hp and 100 times better suspension only 475 points?????????????   Someone please riddle me that crap and make sense while your doing it....

 

 

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Leftovers from the Condren era. If a car hasn't been run, or requested a VPI change, it is too much bother to fix obviously screwed up values. Many were simply removed completely. Meanwhile 2019 ATS's have a value.

 

Grand Nationals used to have an insane number as well because Condren didn't want anyone destroying one to make a race car.

 

928's are overvalued as well as I recall. A couple are racing in citrus but apparently they are a threat here.

Edited by Bandit
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To add, a 435 hp '68 Vette (Probably around 370 in todays net HP) is 300 points just like a 205hp '82.

 

Someone has to build one....

Edited by Bandit
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6 hours ago, 67Mustang said:

Still can't make sense of these values. How is every pre 80 911 from 110 bhp to 204 bhp all set at 750 points, the 85 Carrera with 214 hp set at 1500 points and yet the 97 -99 boxter with 205 hp and 100 times better suspension only 475 points?????????????   Someone please riddle me that crap and make sense while your doing it....

 

 

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Ask for an adjustment.  Complaining on the forum only does something if you really really want it and have support...  #greenfont?  Lolz.

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18 hours ago, Bandit said:

To add, a 435 hp '68 Vette (Probably around 370 in todays net HP) is 300 points just like a 205hp '82.

 

Someone has to build one....

so can you use the 435hp motor and just claim the 82 as a 68? 

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12 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Ask for an adjustment.  Complaining on the forum only does something if you really really want it and have support...  #greenfont?  Lolz.

What "support" are they looking for when evaluating VPI values?  

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3 hours ago, TiredBirds said:

so can you use the 435hp motor and just claim the 82 as a 68? 

Yes, but you cannot use the 24 gallon stock fuel tank of the late cars. 68-70 were 20 gallon, and if a manual would have to change to a Muncie versus the Borg Warner. Little if any performance difference but someone would raise hell because Vette.

 

Platform swap requires parts effecting performance to change. Body doesn't matter. That's the point of the platform swap rule; You don't need to find a specific car to make a particular model.

 

All 82 and earlier Vettes are 300 points.

 

*I thought all C3's prior to '78 were 18 gallon. Not so. Learned something new.

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4 hours ago, QuaTTro said:

What "support" are they looking for when evaluating VPI values?  

I meant peer support.  Like when we all jump on a specific topic and whine about it until we get what we want.  

 

Like free lexan for example.

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20 hours ago, Bandit said:

Yes, but you cannot use the 24 gallon stock fuel tank of the late cars. 68-70 were 20 gallon, and if a manual would have to change to a Muncie versus the Borg Warner. Little if any performance difference but someone would raise hell because Vette.

 

Platform swap requires parts effecting performance to change. Body doesn't matter. That's the point of the platform swap rule; You don't need to find a specific car to make a particular model.

 

All 82 and earlier Vettes are 300 points.

 

*I thought all C3's prior to '78 were 18 gallon. Not so. Learned something new.

that's ok, I'll stick with the 200hp (giggle) 350 and use the bigger tank. 

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On 5/7/2021 at 2:55 PM, wvumtnbkr said:

However, I don't hear anything about huggies e30(s).  I don't hear anything about team Infiniti.  I don't hear anything about the most successful team in champcar history (rbank).  I don't hear anything about premium dudes.

 

Be fair to our ability to complain as a group, 3 of those 4 have been at the center of a pretty large questions over parity in the series. 

 

Nature of motorsports, you either find, lobby or fall into an advantage and then it gets taken away. If that cycle ever ended it would get very boring (in particular for those of us who make a living off the cycle). 

Edited by Black Magic
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4 minutes ago, Black Magic said:

 

Be fair to our ability to complain as a group, 3 of those 4 have been at the center of a pretty large questions over parity in the series. 

 

Nature of motorsports, you either find, lobby or fall into an advantage and then it gets taken away. If that cycle ever ended it would get very boring (in particular for those of us who make a living off the cycle). 

What isnt fun is starting your first build with a tech article in mind, someone bastardizes that rule after you start, you inquire on your build to tech and the tech article vanishes. extra 40 point hit at minimum. Yikes

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A bunch of 150 point cars throwing down. Note the camber these things need. (A glance through the rules shows they are essentially old school 1967-72 Trans Am)

 

Some old 911's in there is well just like original Trans Am. Announcer comment about the Porshhhh's; "He might want a turbo on there..." 🤣

 

 

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On 5/9/2021 at 11:03 AM, Black Magic said:

 

Quote

However, I don't hear anything about huggies e30(s).  I don't hear anything about team Infiniti.  I don't hear anything about the most successful team in champcar history (rbank).  I don't hear anything about premium dudes.

Quote

Be fair to our ability to complain as a group, 3 of those 4 have been at the center of a pretty large questions over parity in the series. 

 

All 4 have an adjusted swap weight advantage.

 

I only find the CRX's egregious, and have said so in the past, but the swap weight shenanigans hurt teams that don't have cars on the most favored chassis list.

Edited by Bandit
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19 hours ago, Bandit said:

All 4 have an adjusted swap weight advantage.

 

I only find the CRX's egregious, and have said so in the past, but the swap weight shenanigans hurt teams that don't have cars on the most favored chassis list.

Deliberate or not, life and racing aren’t fair,... Even in spec racing, where everybody is supposed to be exactly the same, not the case… Rather than lobby, why don’t you build something that takes advantage of the same things you see as unequal but in some racers favor. 

Edited by Team Infiniti
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4 hours ago, Team Infiniti said:

Deliberate or not, life and racing isn’t always fair,... Even in spec racing where everybody is supposed to be exactly the same, that isn’t the case… Rather than lobby, why don’t you build something that takes advantage of the same things you see as unequal but in some racers favor. 

because if a team showed up with an old fart box that started at 150 points and smoked the field people would be upset. The problem is old fart boxes cost $$$ to buy. The GBU vette comes to mind. That car would have been ass fast w/o the wide body and heads. BUT getting into a Gen III vette that isn't a complete mess cost money, unlike a mid 90's 3 series. 

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8 hours ago, Team Infiniti said:

Deliberate or not, life and racing isn’t always fair,... Even in spec racing where everybody is supposed to be exactly the same, that isn’t the case… Rather than lobby, why don’t you build something that takes advantage of the same things you see as unequal but in some racers favor. 

Wait till I start a thread tomorrow. Use a ruling, follow the rule, then that ruling is removed with no notification, get 80 percent of your build done, then have to throw the vehicle in the trash. Gray areas in this league are terrible 

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1 minute ago, mgoblue06 said:

Wait till I start a thread tomorrow. Use a ruling, follow the rule, then that ruling is removed with no notification, get 80 percent of your build done, then have to throw the vehicle in the trash. Gray areas in this league are terrible 

Can't wait to see the thread... I can't remember any rule changes that warrant "throwing a vehicle in the trash" but maybe I'm doing this whole racing thing wrong *shrug*

Edited by enginerd
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10 minutes ago, enginerd said:

Can't wait to see the thread... I can't remember any rule changes that warrant "throwing a vehicle in the trash" but maybe I'm doing this whole racing thing wrong *shrug*

Ok well not in the trash, but won’t be allowed to race. I was a little dramatic. There is always auto cross 

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7 hours ago, mgoblue06 said:

Ok well not in the trash, but won’t be allowed to race. I was a little dramatic. There is always auto cross 

So, what major safety item changed?

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17 hours ago, Bandit said:

All 4 have an adjusted swap weight advantage.

 

I only find the CRX's egregious, and have said so in the past, but the swap weight shenanigans hurt teams that don't have cars on the most favored chassis list.

Not all of them are swapped.  Also, the car with the most champcar victories wasn't the c rx, it is a Saab from rbank.

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5 minutes ago, mgoblue06 said:

What is considered tube frame. And a 140 point rear subframe swap after the 50 point tech article disappeared. 

 

Yah, that sucks, but that value was too good to be true.  It was a sweetheart deal that never should have been made.

 

 

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