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52 minutes ago, mender said:

Indeed; having an old Moog spring catalog with the dimension list (including wire diameter) in the back is very handy.

 

For instance, V6 Pinto wagon front springs with a bit cut off offer a nice boost in spring rate for the front of a Fiero and are the right diameter.

https://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/universal_coil_springs.asp

 

Can search by vehicle as well.

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1 hour ago, Bandit said:

Moog doesn't make springs for imports?

 

 

Chuckling at domestics, including a truck with leaf springs, being considered "haves".

That's the main one. It would actually have to lap close to the Vette to make up for the small tank.

 

Oh no I consider the truck a have not. The only haves that I know off the top of my head are Miata’s, and BMW’s. Do we really need to make it easier for them to be more competitive?

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8 minutes ago, mhr650 said:

 

Oh no I consider the truck a have not. The only haves that I know off the top of my head are Miata’s, and BMW’s. Do we really need to make it easier for them to be more competitive?

E30s have these goofy beehive rear springs... an open spring rule would be huge because I haven’t found (or had custom made) a beehive spring in a higher rate. We cut the stock springs down until ride height became problematic and we are still rear-spring-limited in our suspension setup. Give me a nice selection of free springs for the rear and we will see a jump in handling. 

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1 hour ago, Bandit said:

@Bandit that Moog spring list is an awesome resource.

I also have it in .pdf form, but this interactive one is very cool and useful.

Once you find an ID or OD near what you need, the trick is figuring out the resultant rate once you cut them down to the length needed to achieve your desired ride height. That's where math and some spring rate calculator programs come in handy! (hint: remember wire diameter is a big factor!)

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6 minutes ago, mcoppola said:

@Bandit that Moog spring list is an awesome resource.

I also have it in .pdf form, but this interactive one is very cool and useful.

Once you find an ID or OD near what you need, the trick is figuring out the resultant rate once you cut them down to the length needed to achieve your desired ride height. That's where math and some spring rate calculator programs come in handy! (hint: remember wire diameter is a big factor!)

Spring choice is the one thing some domestics may have a slight advantage on compared to much of the field. 🙂

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/AFCO-5-1-2-x-11-Inch-Street-Stock-Front-Springs-1970-92-GM-Passenger,23510.html

 

Click on rate to see why.

 

And that is just one manufacturer. There are many others as well along with choices in free height. No cutting needed.

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33 minutes ago, enginerd said:

E30s have these goofy beehive rear springs... an open spring rule would be huge because I haven’t found (or had custom made) a beehive spring in a higher rate. We cut the stock springs down until ride height became problematic and we are still rear-spring-limited in our suspension setup. Give me a nice selection of free springs for the rear and we will see a jump in handling. 

I'm pretty sure (based on my crap memory) that g body rear springs look a lot like e30 Rear springs.

 

I know moog makes all kinds of beehive springs that might work!

 

Worth a look!

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3 minutes ago, Bandit said:

Spring choice is the one thing some domestics may have a slight advantage on compared to much of the field. 🙂

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/AFCO-5-1-2-x-11-Inch-Street-Stock-Front-Springs-1970-92-GM-Passenger,23510.html

 

Click on rate to see why.

 

And that is just one manufacturer. There are many others as well along with choices in free height. No cutting needed.

For sure!

 

I gave up and went to coilovers so I can corner weight as well.  It Really helps the car turn equally and save tires.  Can cheat on tracks that are very left or right biased also.

 

Probably the best 40 pts I have spent.

 

However, you can cheat and just do 1 end for 20 pts and get 85% of the benefit.

Edited by wvumtnbkr
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15 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

I'm pretty sure (based on my crap memory) that g body rear springs look a lot like e30 Rear springs.

 

I know moog makes all kinds of beehive springs that might work!

 

Worth a look!

Have no idea what the diameter nor free height of E30 springs are but here is an example of a G body rear. Has dimensions listed.

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/AFCO-5-1-2-x-12-Inch-Street-Stock-Rear-Springs-1973-88-GM-Passenger,23511.html

Edited by Bandit
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26 minutes ago, Bandit said:

Have no idea what the diameter nor free height of E30 springs are but here is an example of a G body rear. Has dimensions listed.

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/AFCO-5-1-2-x-12-Inch-Street-Stock-Rear-Springs-1973-88-GM-Passenger,23511.html

image.jpeg.1a9c50262155b3d4026d2bfed47a3bf2.jpeg

roughly 5” diameter at the widest part (if remembering correctly)

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2 hours ago, Bandit said:

Moog doesn't make springs for imports?

 

 

Chuckling at domestics, including a truck with leaf springs, being considered "haves".

That's the main one. It would actually have to lap close to the Vette to make up for the small tank.

we can go 1.5 hours in our gen III and that is with a 305. We might do a cell but that still won't get us 2 hours.

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1 hour ago, enginerd said:

E30s have these goofy beehive rear springs... an open spring rule would be huge because I haven’t found (or had custom made) a beehive spring in a higher rate. We cut the stock springs down until ride height became problematic and we are still rear-spring-limited in our suspension setup. Give me a nice selection of free springs for the rear and we will see a jump in handling. 

could you just change the upper mount? 

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5 minutes ago, TiredBirds said:

we can go 1.5 hours in our gen III and that is with a 305. We might do a cell but that still won't get us 2 hours.

Non of the pointy end cars can make 2 hours at the bigger tracks from what I have seen. No idea at places like Autobahn. I'd be more worried about making the same number of stops as the other front runners or, more likely, one more due to the small capacity even with a cell and building to a laptime that allows that.

 

Pretty sure the fuel tanks on gen 3's and 4's are pretty close to the same size. Going from memory I think a gen 4 LT1 with a cell can only go about 1.5 hours. If that driven hard. The small tanks really hamper those cars.

 

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17 minutes ago, TiredBirds said:

could you just change the upper mount? 

He'd have to take points, that I'm guessing are not available, for the springs if they are different.

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28 minutes ago, enginerd said:

image.jpeg.1a9c50262155b3d4026d2bfed47a3bf2.jpeg

roughly 5” diameter at the widest part (if remembering correctly)

G body springs aren't going to match up with that. Taller and larger diameter.

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1 minute ago, Team Infiniti said:

Thankfully so, they would run away with the show if let off the leash.

Dave's is/was the best of the bunch as I recall and the 6 cylinder Merc that got DQ'd ran the same laptime.

 

Just sayin...

 

Camaro's are kinda heavy.

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4 minutes ago, Bandit said:

Dave's is/was the best of the bunch as I recall and the 6 cylinder Merc that got DQ'd ran the same laptime.

 

Just sayin...

 

Camaro's are kinda heavy.

And that lap time is invincible without fuel being an issue.

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7 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said:

And that lap time is invincible without fuel being an issue.

True.

 

On the flip side, it (Camaro) can't win with that laptime due to limited fuel capacity so it actually needs to run faster to make up an extra stop versus the other front runners.

 

Extra stops can't be ignored when the howls start about fast laptimes. That extra 5 minutes has to be made up on the track.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Bandit said:

True.

 

On the flip side, it (Camaro) can't win with that laptime due to limited fuel capacity so it actually needs to run faster to make up an extra stop versus the other front runners.

 

Extra stops can't be ignored when the howls start about fast laptimes. That extra 5 minutes has to be made up on the track.

 

 

Only a handful of cars can go five seconds a lap faster than the rest, that extra fuel stop isn’t in issue.

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There were a fair number of cars within 3 seconds of that including a Miata. And a couple fast cars, Cobra and Altima, dropped out early this year.

 

Not so easy to make up that extra stop. If it was I'd guess there would have been a number of Gen 4 wins after this many years. I recall zero.

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6 minutes ago, Bandit said:

zero

The number of teams bringing a serious contending Gen4 isn’t much above zero

 

Also, that elevated pace is exponentially harder on Driver/equipment, you have to run clean and to the end to win...

Edited by Team Infiniti
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10 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said:

The number of teams bringing a serious contending Gen4 isn’t much above zero

Probably because people do some quick calcs factoring in weight, hp needed for that weight, oops.... look at that little gas tank.

 

With great drivers and a couple well placed cautions it has a chance. Otherwise, nope. People take that into account when choosing a car.

 

 

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