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2021 Board of Directors Annual Meeting - Virtual


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24 minutes ago, Rodger Coan-Burningham said:

 

Ok, I see how it is now.....

Yes, criticize.  It will only make my junk faster!  Bring tiffany too...  she is a hard ass.

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Personally I was really disappointed that no tires rules came forth, but I actually expected that. I put forth a bunch of tire petitions in the hope that one or a combo would be accepted. I was told that a petition has to be straight forward and not give options as the BOD would not choose. If the BOD did not see a good tire rule, work with the TAC and use their racer knowledge to come up with a rule. I do not think the head in the sand stand and ignoring the issue is the right direction to go. To say you discussed tires for hours and hours and came up with nothing has me wondering why.

 

I ask myself if we did rule X, what would happen? Would it make racing better? Would it give the teams without unlimited budgets a better chance to do well? Does not having a tire rule really help teams with money get that advantage and is that really fair? The guys with money always say racing is expensive and just life. Should we just accept that and let it be? I do not know myself.

 

I was also confused on the race director discretion to reach out to the team and do what?  I was also thinking this was very targeted at only 2 or 3 teams that come in "fancy haulers" statement and not sure if that is the real answer to the problem. So if a team with money to burn and use tires comes in an open trailer with lots of tires that is fine? 

 

I know there is not perfect rule, and will never be. There are always the exception ideas and what if scenarios that can put down any idea. What if we flat spot all 4 tires? What if we use old tires and want to swap them out in the middle of the race? Safety of being forced to run an old tire (that is a teams choice now as is). Ect, Ect, Ect. If we use that mentality then we would never have any rules.

 

I look at it this way. Champcar is supposed to be an affordable race option and the affordable word is in the mission statement. Isn't the BOD's main goal to represent the members and make sure they are upholding the mission statement?  If the word affordable is there, shouldn't a huge cost, highest consumable cost other than race fees, to racers be addressed there? Personally I have spent a lot of money on my cars to build them (when I have extra money I buy nice things to upgrade),but try to really focus on low consumables long term to enter more races. Example- With Wilwood calipers the pads are 2x thicker and last 3x longer. After one brake pad change the cost of the calipers is saved. With tires, we have gone with RE71r or other now, it really hurts the overall budget and extra money to enter more races. If I raise prices to my drivers they can not afford it and race. If I do not I need to cover those costs at team owner, so I need to save up my own money to flip that bill and do now to be competitive, though now it has made me enter less races.

 

What I really do not get is that we all know there are two basic tires out there, A and B. A being RS4/615 type that last and B being the RE71r type that are much much faster that do not last. Sure, you can win on the A tire, but you better have a perfect strategy to make up the speed. We all know this and the teams with money can spend it and have that advantage. With points based rules, which equals penalty laps, for almost all speed related items, but not tires.

 

I highlighted this message. multiple times now, walked away and ponder to even enter it or to delete and not post as I am at the point of why bother anymore. I think the teams that want to be able to compete for a top 10 and do it affordably are the minority and we see that CC has changed to a spending war on tires.

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3 hours ago, MR2 Biohazard said:

Personally I was really disappointed that no tires rules came forth, but I actually expected that. I put forth a bunch of tire petitions in the hope that one or a combo would be accepted. I was told that a petition has to be straight forward and not give options as the BOD would not choose. If the BOD did not see a good tire rule, work with the TAC and use their racer knowledge to come up with a rule. I do not think the head in the sand stand and ignoring the issue is the right direction to go. To say you discussed tires for hours and hours and came up with nothing has me wondering why.

 

I ask myself if we did rule X, what would happen? Would it make racing better? Would it give the teams without unlimited budgets a better chance to do well? Does not having a tire rule really help teams with money get that advantage and is that really fair? The guys with money always say racing is expensive and just life. Should we just accept that and let it be? I do not know myself.

 

I was also confused on the race director discretion to reach out to the team and do what?  I was also thinking this was very targeted at only 2 or 3 teams that come in "fancy haulers" statement and not sure if that is the real answer to the problem. So if a team with money to burn and use tires comes in an open trailer with lots of tires that is fine? 

 

I know there is not perfect rule, and will never be. There are always the exception ideas and what if scenarios that can put down any idea. What if we flat spot all 4 tires? What if we use old tires and want to swap them out in the middle of the race? Safety of being forced to run an old tire (that is a teams choice now as is). Ect, Ect, Ect. If we use that mentality then we would never have any rules.

 

I look at it this way. Champcar is supposed to be an affordable race option and the affordable word is in the mission statement. Isn't the BOD's main goal to represent the members and make sure they are upholding the mission statement?  If the word affordable is there, shouldn't a huge cost, highest consumable cost other than race fees, to racers be addressed there? Personally I have spent a lot of money on my cars to build them (when I have extra money I buy nice things to upgrade),but try to really focus on low consumables long term to enter more races. Example- With Wilwood calipers the pads are 2x thicker and last 3x longer. After one brake pad change the cost of the calipers is saved. With tires, we have gone with RE71r or other now, it really hurts the overall budget and extra money to enter more races. If I raise prices to my drivers they can not afford it and race. If I do not I need to cover those costs at team owner, so I need to save up my own money to flip that bill and do now to be competitive, though now it has made me enter less races.

 

What I really do not get is that we all know there are two basic tires out there, A and B. A being RS4/615 type that last and B being the RE71r type that are much much faster that do not last. Sure, you can win on the A tire, but you better have a perfect strategy to make up the speed. We all know this and the teams with money can spend it and have that advantage. With points based rules, which equals penalty laps, for almost all speed related items, but not tires.

 

I highlighted this message. multiple times now, walked away and ponder to even enter it or to delete and not post as I am at the point of why bother anymore. I think the teams that want to be able to compete for a top 10 and do it affordably are the minority and we see that CC has changed to a spending war on tires.

 

This is why I think our team (and many) are destined to be "grid fillers".  We have no shot at spending enough to be front runners and aren't aggressively figuring out how to do more than 2 race weekends a season because of it.  We do our absolute best with a car that is finally approaching 500 points but haven't taken the plunge on all the "free" stuff (including super sticky tires).  The series "allows" us, but isn't "target" for us anymore.  In the end, it is a business, and business is doing fine so there isn't a need to change.  I still get grumpy over it, but it is my problem and not the series' problem that I don't spend enough to get faster.  I also know there are plenty of "grid fillers" that are faster than us and teams that spend money that aren't faster than us.  

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33 minutes ago, Originalsterm said:

 

This is why I think our team (and many) are destined to be "grid fillers".  We have no shot at spending enough to be front runners and aren't aggressively figuring out how to do more than 2 race weekends a season because of it.  We do our absolute best with a car that is finally approaching 500 points but haven't taken the plunge on all the "free" stuff (including super sticky tires).  The series "allows" us, but isn't "target" for us anymore.  In the end, it is a business, and business is doing fine so there isn't a need to change.  I still get grumpy over it, but it is my problem and not the series' problem that I don't spend enough to get faster.  I also know there are plenty of "grid fillers" that are faster than us and teams that spend money that aren't faster than us.  

If this is another post regarding tires- I'm still not seeing the issue.

We podium on tires that have been used for multiple races.  The tire does not make a podium car-PERIOD!

Spend money on making a car reliable, spend money on making a driver better.  Or don't.

For our team- it's about making the car reliable, having no issues during a race, having clean pitstops, staying out of trouble, having fun....  It is not about spending a lot of money.  But to each their own.

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17 minutes ago, chip said:

If this is another post regarding tires- I'm still not seeing the issue.

We podium on tires that have been used for multiple races.  The tire does not make a podium car-PERIOD!

Spend money on making a car reliable, spend money on making a driver better.  Or don't.

For our team- it's about making the car reliable, having no issues during a race, having clean pitstops, staying out of trouble, having fun....  It is not about spending a lot of money.  But to each their own.

Tires is one aspect, but it goes along with the other "free" stuff you are allowed to do that pushes the budget beyond what some teams are willing to spend.  THAT'S OK, but it wasn't what I thought I was getting into when we joined the series a few years ago. 

 

...I typed more but it just sounds like being grumpy.  I can't afford all of the zero point items to make my car faster.  My car is already reliable, so that's not our issue.  If tires have been proven to be faster, how is it different than a car being proven to go faster with more power?  Most power mods cost points.  I don't want to take away anything from the teams that win on cheaper tires, but doesn't this mean even you are fighting an uphill battle against the teams that spend more?  What if next season the speed creep gets past even you? 

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28 minutes ago, chip said:

If this is another post regarding tires- I'm still not seeing the issue.

We podium on tires that have been used for multiple races.  The tire does not make a podium car-PERIOD!

Spend money on making a car reliable, spend money on making a driver better.  Or don't.

For our team- it's about making the car reliable, having no issues during a race, having clean pitstops, staying out of trouble, having fun....  It is not about spending a lot of money.  But to each their own.

So let's have it, how much are you spending on a weekend that you end with a podium finish?

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55 minutes ago, chip said:

If this is another post regarding tires- I'm still not seeing the issue.

We podium on tires that have been used for multiple races.  The tire does not make a podium car-PERIOD!

Spend money on making a car reliable, spend money on making a driver better.  Or don't.

For our team- it's about making the car reliable, having no issues during a race, having clean pitstops, staying out of trouble, having fun....  It is not about spending a lot of money.  But to each their own.

Chip, you guys spend money on that car, that is for sure. It is very well prepped and have fully built gone though motors. The engines are really fast and reliable. Didn't you all run A052 tires on Saturday at the glen and podium? If that rumor is true and you say tires do make a car podium why run them at all?

 

Chip, you all are one of the exceptions out there on tires. Granted, you have amazing drivers and Chris might be the best car prep guy in the paddock plus you play strategy very well. Tires do not make a car podium, but I have been in car that had great drivers, perfect stints, great strategy, run RS4 tires and finished 5th place with the 4 in front all on RE71r type of tires. I knew we would have been top 1- or 2 if we had the sticky tires. Do you downplay the speed difference is really just ignoring it.

 

I agree spending money in different ways. I have blown up a bunch now with my junkyard motors because I did not have the money to spend 5-10K on fully rebuilt custom engines, but might have to soon. Can you PM me your engine builder and maybe it is not as bad as I have been told with local builders. This time I am splurging on my $400 junk yard pickup and putting in some Clevite bearings with Calico coatings and hope that will fix the rod bearing issue I have been having.

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1 minute ago, Rodger Coan-Burningham said:

 

I expect more of this in your posts if you are going to be the VP of Care and Concern on your team.

You are correct- I should live up to my new job role....

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8 minutes ago, MR2 Biohazard said:

Chip, you guys spend money on that car, that is for sure. It is very well prepped and have fully built gone though motors. The engines are really fast and reliable. Didn't you all run A052 tires on Saturday at the glen and podium? If that rumor is true and you say tires do make a car podium why run them at all?

 

Chip, you all are one of the exceptions out there on tires. Granted, you have amazing drivers and Chris might be the best car prep guy in the paddock plus you play strategy very well. Tires do not make a car podium, but I have been in car that had great drivers, perfect stints, great strategy, run RS4 tires and finished 5th place with the 4 in front all on RE71r type of tires. I knew we would have been top 1- or 2 if we had the sticky tires. Do you downplay the speed difference is really just ignoring it.

 

I agree spending money in different ways. I have blown up a bunch now with my junkyard motors because I did not have the money to spend 5-10K on fully rebuilt custom engines, but might have to soon. Can you PM me your engine builder and maybe it is not as bad as I have been told with local builders. This time I am splurging on my $400 junk yard pickup and putting in some Clevite bearings with Calico coatings and hope that will fix the rod bearing issue I have been having.

We ran the RS4 on both cars for both days- we did run some conti's in the rain Saturday morning but put the RS4's on after the second stint.

 

When I was with Ronald's Racers we always went through the engines and refreshed them ourselves.  To spend all this time and money on building and hopefully racing these cars in an endurance series and not go through the engine to me is silly.  But there are engines out there that can go from the junk yard into the car and race for years.  That's not a something that I would be comfortable with.

 

As for spending money on building Chris's cars- well you'll have to ask him for that number.  He builds/refreshes his own engines.  I do know that they have not been apart since they have gone into the cars- not sure of the miles on each, but it's been a little time.

 

The last year we have spent a lot of time on both these cars and not much money.  This was the same for when I was with Ronald's Racers- some times all we did was bleed the brakes between podium races- must be lucky I guess.

 

Oh yeah- and have fun!

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1 hour ago, chip said:

If this is another post regarding tires- I'm still not seeing the issue.

We podium on tires that have been used for multiple races.  The tire does not make a podium car-PERIOD!

 

 

Awesome, let's make a bet for your next race with at least 50 teams.  I choose your tires and if you win then I will pay for them.  If you don't win then you buy me a set of tires of my choice.

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1 hour ago, Ron_e said:

 

Awesome, let's make a bet for your next race with at least 50 teams.  I choose your tires and if you win then I will pay for them.  If you don't win then you buy me a set of tires of my choice.

He said tires don't make a podium car, you are betting that tires can break a podium car, not the same thing. 

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3 hours ago, Rodger Coan-Burningham said:

 

I expect more of this in your posts if you are going to be the VP of Care and Concern on your team.

 

He cared for me by sharing a bottle of water at WGI, begrudgingly but I did have 16 oz of luke warm water to drink during my three stints. 

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1 hour ago, ABR-Glen said:

He said tires don't make a podium car, you are betting that tires can break a podium car, not the same thing. 

 

I agree it is not the lone factor but if they are as irrelevant as he says he will gladly take my bet.

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1 hour ago, MR2 Biohazard said:

Is there a way to get the vote registration for each petition form the BOD? I am sure if they all voted there has to be a record of who votes yes and who voted no.

 

I concur.  Information like this would be highly valuable at election time.  A lot of candidates claim to be for the little guy (and want to keep costs in control).  Would be nice to see if they actually vote that way.

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6 minutes ago, Grufton said:

 

I concur.  Information like this would be highly valuable at election time.  A lot of candidates claim to be for the little guy (and want to keep costs in control).  Would be nice to see if they actually vote that way.

 

We need to look at the bylaws, but my guess is that the vote and information has to be kept and made public being a non profit and members owned organization. Isn't that what the treasurers job is, to keep notes, track votes, publish items to members as meeting happen? Being a members owned org I am not sure why that information would ever be held and hidden from the members as that just would not make any sense at all. Heck, if you want conspiracy theories and the perception of bad door deals then hidden votes and behind closed doors if what it seem like, even if that never happens or happened, the perception will be that it does.

 

I have to take meeting notes at work often. It does not need to word for word, more ideas, what is brought up, decisions made, the why behind them, ect.  It is actually not hard to do so I am not sure why that is not done.

 

The votes on petitions I would think would be the number 1 priority for members to see. If we keep on saying transparency and communication I think that would be step one.

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5 hours ago, MR2 Biohazard said:

 

We need to look at the bylaws, but my guess is that the vote and information has to be kept and made public being a non profit and members owned organization. Isn't that what the treasurers job is, to keep notes, track votes, publish items to members as meeting happen? Being a members owned org I am not sure why that information would ever be held and hidden from the members as that just would not make any sense at all. Heck, if you want conspiracy theories and the perception of bad door deals then hidden votes and behind closed doors if what it seem like, even if that never happens or happened, the perception will be that it does.

 

I have to take meeting notes at work often. It does not need to word for word, more ideas, what is brought up, decisions made, the why behind them, ect.  It is actually not hard to do so I am not sure why that is not done.

 

The votes on petitions I would think would be the number 1 priority for members to see. If we keep on saying transparency and communication I think that would be step one.

I’ve asked for it.  Still waiting.  

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31 minutes ago, MR2 Biohazard said:

Maybe if we all ask for it.

I did only request them Monday, so I’ll be patient.  I also asked for the results of the members feedback on the petitions as that is very important too. 
 

If the majority of responses from members was that they wanted something done with regards to tires, and they are using the low response rate as an excuse there is something seriously wrong.   

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