mgoblue06 Posted June 24, 2021 Report Share Posted June 24, 2021 Those of you running accumulators, what are you sing for a valve? Cable or electric? we can’t install the accumulator in the cab due to rules and use the ball value so the driver can turn on and off before starting or after shutting down. Just mount it so the valve is accessible before or after starting for the race session and use it manually? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Infiniti Posted June 24, 2021 Report Share Posted June 24, 2021 (edited) Not sure what engine, but low pressure during a sweeping or high g turn is the biggest issue here. Electric and hooked to a pressure switch. Edited June 24, 2021 by Team Infiniti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgoblue06 Posted June 24, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2021 10 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said: Not sure what engine, but low pressure during a seeping or high g turn is the biggest issue here. Electric and hooked to a pressure switch. 4.3 v6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted June 24, 2021 Report Share Posted June 24, 2021 Isn't the valve just used to lubricate and fill the accumulator during startup? Also, you CAN use a ball valve and a cable to actuate it (like a choke cable). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgoblue06 Posted June 24, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2021 8 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said: Isn't the valve just used to lubricate and fill the accumulator during startup? Also, you CAN use a ball valve and a cable to actuate it (like a choke cable). I think it’s to hold pressure built up to be used at next startup. Close it after shutting down. I think I found a electric valve and pressure switch on Facebook marketplace for about half the price as new. 20-25 psi pressure switch, so when pressure goes low it dumps the 3 quarts of oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MR2 Biohazard Posted June 24, 2021 Members Report Share Posted June 24, 2021 I only have a ball valve on mine for changing the oil to make sure it is at the right level. I put in the oil with the valve open, all of it is in the engine pan, the accumulator fills up, I rev engine to like 5K to fully charge the accumulator and turn the ball valve to hold it in there. Then turn off the engine and make sure the oil level is where it should be. I then open up the ball valve and know it is good. I now have put a notch on my dip stick up to the full level to make it easier to see the oil level. During the race it is open all the time. When we pit it is open and drains into the pan. When we start it will charge. It only takes 10-15 seconds to charge fully so not worries there. We do not turn it off or on, just leave it alone and good to go. With the electronic valve I have seen someone still starve due to it. If my understanding is correct, it will fully charge and the valve gets closed. When a threshold pressure is below X it will open the valve and then dump it in. What I saw is that someone set this pressure to 35psi, which you would think would be good enough as that is where idle is around, but the valve and pressure was not fast enough. When the pressure was set to 35psi it actually went down to 25psi and then spiked up to like 60-70psi. There were lots of these spikes during his race and to me it really took away the benefit of the accusump. When I compared that to mine, that is open all the time, I saw mine have a nice smooth flow up and down and kept the pressure much more consistent, which is really what you want anyway. My advise is to not run an electric valve at all in racing. For a street car or if you are really worried about cold start hurting a rod bearing then ok, but I do not think we should be worried about that with how we use our engines. Just my 2 cents, enjoy the money. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgoblue06 Posted June 24, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2021 2 hours ago, MR2 Biohazard said: I only have a ball valve on mine for changing the oil to make sure it is at the right level. I put in the oil with the valve open, all of it is in the engine pan, the accumulator fills up, I rev engine to like 5K to fully charge the accumulator and turn the ball valve to hold it in there. Then turn off the engine and make sure the oil level is where it should be. I then open up the ball valve and know it is good. I now have put a notch on my dip stick up to the full level to make it easier to see the oil level. During the race it is open all the time. When we pit it is open and drains into the pan. When we start it will charge. It only takes 10-15 seconds to charge fully so not worries there. We do not turn it off or on, just leave it alone and good to go. With the electronic valve I have seen someone still starve due to it. If my understanding is correct, it will fully charge and the valve gets closed. When a threshold pressure is below X it will open the valve and then dump it in. What I saw is that someone set this pressure to 35psi, which you would think would be good enough as that is where idle is around, but the valve and pressure was not fast enough. When the pressure was set to 35psi it actually went down to 25psi and then spiked up to like 60-70psi. There were lots of these spikes during his race and to me it really took away the benefit of the accusump. When I compared that to mine, that is open all the time, I saw mine have a nice smooth flow up and down and kept the pressure much more consistent, which is really what you want anyway. My advise is to not run an electric valve at all in racing. For a street car or if you are really worried about cold start hurting a rod bearing then ok, but I do not think we should be worried about that with how we use our engines. Just my 2 cents, enjoy the money. Thanks! I had this process in my mind on how things would go. We have a one way valve before the T in flow that forces the flow into the pan from the accusump. This method seems simpler and cost effective as the Oil accumulator we bought already has a ball valve on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MR2 Biohazard Posted June 24, 2021 Members Report Share Posted June 24, 2021 45 minutes ago, mgoblue06 said: We have a one way valve before the T in flow that forces the flow into the pan from the accusump. What? I am confused on how it would dump into the pan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgoblue06 Posted June 24, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2021 41 minutes ago, MR2 Biohazard said: What? I am confused on how it would dump into the pan? Prevents flow back into the cooler and forces it into the pan. Here is flow direction Out of pan Remote filter Into cooler out of cooler backflow valve tee in connection of accusump back into pan our S10 has a factory oil cooler built into radiator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd K Posted June 24, 2021 Report Share Posted June 24, 2021 15 hours ago, mgoblue06 said: Those of you running accumulators, what are you sing for a valve? Cable or electric? we can’t install the accumulator in the cab due to rules and use the ball value so the driver can turn on and off before starting or after shutting down. Just mount it so the valve is accessible before or after starting for the race session and use it manually? Where in the rules is this stated? I'm installing ours in the cabin with solid alum/copper lines so should be legal per what I read unless I missed something?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit Posted June 24, 2021 Report Share Posted June 24, 2021 I'm not following how it could even work dumping into the pan. Here are Canton's instructions for plumbing an Accusump. You want it going into the block/oil galleys. https://www.cantonracingproducts.com/content/Instructions/instructions.pdf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit Posted June 24, 2021 Report Share Posted June 24, 2021 2 minutes ago, Todd K said: Where in the rules is this stated? I'm installing ours in the cabin with solid alum/copper lines so should be legal per what I read unless I missed something?? As I recall from a discussion on this a while back it needs to be completely enclosed with shielding if in the drivers compartment. You don't want hot oil spraying around and on the driver if there is a failure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd K Posted June 24, 2021 Report Share Posted June 24, 2021 I'm not sure how this would be sourced and discharged from the pan to provide any benefit. The accumulator is under pressure oil which purpose is to make up for volume / pressure when you have times if the pump is uncovered (while racing) or for pre-oiling an engine before start up. Therefore it should be plumbed into the pressure circuit with best points that keep the main / rod / cam galleries supplied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd K Posted June 24, 2021 Report Share Posted June 24, 2021 1 minute ago, Bandit said: As I recall from a discussion on this a while back it needs to be completely enclosed with shielding if in the drivers compartment. You don't want hot oil spraying around and on the driver if there is a failure. I get that scenario but I cannot find it in the rules. Unless there was a tech decision that was not widely published or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ross2004 Posted June 24, 2021 Report Share Posted June 24, 2021 19 minutes ago, Todd K said: Unless there was a tech decision that was not widely published or something. https://champcar.org/tech/knowledgebase.php?article=45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MR2 Biohazard Posted June 24, 2021 Members Report Share Posted June 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Todd K said: Where in the rules is this stated? I'm installing ours in the cabin with solid alum/copper lines so should be legal per what I read unless I missed something?? the accusump can be in the cabin, just the oil an lines all need to be covered. Who wants 300F hot oil under pressure spraying on the driver. I put mine in the trunk. That bad boy gets hot and I do not need anything extra getting hot in the car. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MR2 Biohazard Posted June 24, 2021 Members Report Share Posted June 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Todd K said: I'm not sure how this would be sourced and discharged from the pan to provide any benefit. The accumulator is under pressure oil which purpose is to make up for volume / pressure when you have times if the pump is uncovered (while racing) or for pre-oiling an engine before start up. Therefore it should be plumbed into the pressure circuit with best points that keep the main / rod / cam galleries supplied. It has to be plumbed from the oil feed line. Mine goes from the oil filter location on the block out, remote oil filter, oil cooler, T fitting to accusump and back into the engine. So it is after the oil filer. I thought oil filters had drain back check valves in them? Even if not, the oil would need to be pressurized past a spinning oil pump to go back into the pan. Plus, there is a bunch of oil dumping into the engine so even if some slips past the filer and the oil pump there is still pressure in the line to get to the bearings and cams for 10-15 seconds, depending on size and clearances. You really only need 3-5 seconds in most cases in most turns. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd K Posted June 24, 2021 Report Share Posted June 24, 2021 1 hour ago, ross2004 said: https://champcar.org/tech/knowledgebase.php?article=45 Thanks - I have seen that and - yes they do / can get hot. Per the rules the lines have to be metal OR enclosed in metal so we can do that not a problem. Nothing about the ball valve is mentioned and the schrader valve on the back end is for adjusting the pressure - not a relief valve of any sort. So we should be good. Probably will go with moving the accumulator to the rear with everything else I have in the back since we are FWD and can use a little extra to balance out the driver weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ross2004 Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 18 hours ago, Todd K said: not a relief valve of any sort. There is a pressure relief valve though, it's on the cap beside the valve/hose fitting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd K Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 3 hours ago, ross2004 said: There is a pressure relief valve though, it's on the cap beside the valve/hose fitting. I have a Moroso - it has a ball valve on one end and the other end has a pressure gage and a schrader valve to precharge. No relief valve in sight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ross2004 Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 Gotcha, my mistake. Though we were talking about an Accusump. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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