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Typical Race Weekend Budget


Typical Race Weekdend Budget  

59 members have voted

  1. 1. How much do you plan to spend per race weekend?

    • <$2,000
      2
    • $2-$3,000
      9
    • $3-$4,000
      27
    • $4-$5,000
      15
    • >$5,000
      6


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20 minutes ago, Andrew D Johnson said:

 


I really didn’t think this was too much of an issue until maybe 3-4 years ago, but it is becoming abundantly clear that a good portion of many team’s weekend budgets is spent on tires. The tire companies will continue making 180-200 tread wear tires that are closer and closer to competition slicks or designed for auto cross that can be used for a significant performance advantage in ChampCar while at the same time raising the overall cost for any team competing for the podium. 
 

As a member of the TAC I would love to champion any good idea to reduce the average tire cost of our members. Please feel free to reach out to me if you have an idea how this is best accomplished. 

I like just raising the tw, but again I realize it can change with tire companies, I am not for banning tires or only listing accepted tires as we run dirt cheap Federal's and are very happy with them. $215 for a set of 4 that will last a 8-7 and still give us a decent finish, I would hate to see those outlawed as for us they work great. Just my thoughts...

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15 minutes ago, Timothy G. Elliott said:

I like just raising the tw, but again I realize it can change with tire companies, I am not for banning tires or only listing accepted tires as we run dirt cheap Federal's and are very happy with them. $215 for a set of 4 that will last a 8-7 and still give us a decent finish, I would hate to see those outlawed as for us they work great. Just my thoughts...


Thank you for the feedback, and obviously there is no competitive problem with your team running the Federal tires. 
 

This just goes to show why this is a complex and sensitive issue to tackle. 

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6 hours ago, Andrew D Johnson said:

 


Is this the type of tire rule that would help keep costs in check? 

4.8. TIRE SPECIFICATIONS FOR EC CLASS: Tire must be DOT legal and the UTQG treadwear rated at 180 or higher. 
4.8.1 TIRE SPECIFICATIONS FOR ALL NON EC CARS: The following tire list details the only tires allowed outside of EC

HANKOOK VENTUS R-S4 
MAXXIS VICTARA VR1
FALKEN AZENIS RT615K+

That was my suggestion essentially.

 

An approved tire list. Avoids whack a mole.

 

Jer seemed to like it but no idea how it went with the BOD other than no changes.

Edited by Bandit
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On 7/8/2021 at 7:28 PM, mhr650 said:

When you look at the market trajectory in 18 months we may be looking back at the good old days when we could get tires that would last a whole 7 hour race... 

If you want to talk "the good old days", have a look at these:

KIMG3026.jpg.90641fa678ff8a2401bcc01ff1f8e29f.jpg

 

These are the tires that I used when I came in second in the Alberta Autoslalom Championship in 1980. Still holding air, just filled them up to move the car a bit. First Gen T/As in FR60-14.

 

Back then we were happy to be able to do two or three autoslalom events without killing the tires. Yup, about fifteen minutes worth of scrubbing off rubber! Tires have come a long, long way since then! 

Edited by mender
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27 minutes ago, mender said:

If you want to talk "the good old days", have a look at these:

KIMG3026.jpg.90641fa678ff8a2401bcc01ff1f8e29f.jpg

 

These are the tires that I used when I came in second in the Alberta Autoslalom Championship in 1980. Still holding air, just filled them up to move the car a bit. First Gen T/As in FR60-14.

 

Back then we were happy to be able to do two or three autoslalom events without killing the tires. Yup, about fifteen minutes worth of scrubbing off rubber! Tires have come a long, long way since then! 

My W30 had Belted T/A's on it when I bought it.  Had 275/60/14, yes 275's on a 14" wheel, molded in the sidewall.

 

Put Coker repop Wide Oval G70-14's on it and they looked like pizza cutters. But are as soft as a drag slick.

 

Some of the soft autocross tires out there now are being changed out about as often as your old street tires were by the guys going for wins. They don't have much life either.

 

Make the Firebird into a Champcar. 🙂

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Bandit said:

Make the Firebird into a Champcar. 🙂

If I do, will Champcar promise to hold a race near me? :)

 

If you go to my profile, you can see the last time those tires were used in an autocross, on a dusty lot where I got a bit off line. To let you know how old that picture is, in the upper part of the picture (not shown) there's a gas station advertising fuel for 20.6 cents per litre or about $0.62/US gallon. 

Edited by mender
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10 hours ago, Timothy G. Elliott said:

I like just raising the tw, but again I realize it can change with tire companies, I am not for banning tires or only listing accepted tires as we run dirt cheap Federal's and are very happy with them. $215 for a set of 4 that will last a 8-7 and still give us a decent finish, I would hate to see those outlawed as for us they work great. Just my thoughts...

 

This brings up another benefit of the approved tire list, it would not only set a maximum performance level for tires, it would also set a minimum performance level. I don’t know anything about the Federal tires you speak of but if they are appropriate race tires for the series, they can be added to the list. By allowing only tires that are known to be suitable for endurance racing it would avoid a new team that didn’t know better from showing up with some rock hard tires that they think will last them 5 races and finding out that they have an overheating, chunking, mess on their hands. Not only does this situation end up ruining their fun of a first event, it contributes to the ever-increasing closing speed problem that we have always had but seems to be getting worse.

 

In response to the thread hijack, of the thread hijack above, I saw a car at a race this year with Radial TA’s mounted. They spent a lot of time off track, but I have no idea why, its possible they still don’t know that those tires are totally inappropriate for endurance racing.

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Agree, there were quite a few oval enduro teams back in the 80s and 90s  that seemed to think that soft winter tires would be just the ticket. It wasn't. Blown tires and disgruntled teams made for a bad experience.

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This sort of thing is why I've been absent from the forum for the better part of the last year.  An honest question about the budget for a race weekend was asked and the tire discussion has taken over yet again. I'll check back in on tech discussions in a few months when the 2022 BCCR comes out, until then you folks enjoy arguing over rubber!

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Neat spreadsheet.  I'm assuming there is another whole page to deal with wear and tear and/or damage.  Or does that fall under the "cost of improvements"?

 

$10/night lodging made me chuckle.  Not sure I want to know what that type of room looks like. 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, MMiskoe said:

Neat spreadsheet.  I'm assuming there is another whole page to deal with wear and tear and/or damage.  Or does that fall under the "cost of improvements"?

 

$10/night lodging made me chuckle.  Not sure I want to know what that type of room looks like. 

 

 

Thanks, Yeah I usually throw those in that category since they're never consistent. Haha I normally camp at the track in the trailer and thats how much Gingerman charges so I just carry it over normally. 

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