Jump to content

2021 Nelson Ledges Race Results and Reports


Recommended Posts

16 hours ago, Snake said:

 

Don't see anything.   I'd suggest Race Director also post in the race recap thread as well since it was a part of the race.    

 

You don't see anything because I haven't posted it yet.

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Overall the Nelson Ledges race weekend went great for Bulldog Racing. 
We debuted the m54 swap into our car after making the decision to make the change at the end of the 2021 NCM race. It was a 3 month sprint!
We had no mechanical issues associated with the swap which we consider a huge success and a testament to how far we've come in terms of prep and knowledge. Additional support from Champcar members also helped greatly!

 

The full weekend at NL was interesting to say the least! The rain, oh god the rain! Everything was saturated and it was an exercise in just staying on the blacktop and not going off.

 

We got a nice 4hrs of practice in friday and did not do any running in the afternoon portion due to the new hydroplaning feature added to the front straight!

image.png.3904767b736c13586bc8a103618249ad.png

 

 

Saturday was wet and we lost the windshield wiper 45min into the race. We RainX'ed every pit stop and the heater grid worked 100%. But following cars we were blind and we really close to just parking it. Even when it stopped raining, following people into 1 and 12 after the puddles we lost vision.

 

My opinion: make rain lights and some sort of forward facing head lamp required. $300 spent to protect the investment and personal safety is just fine with us. (we have bought some and will be installed for PIRC).

 

Saturday we did zero work as the car was rock solid. Will Guarino just happened to come down and visit Saturday night and brough a new wiper mechanism for us, therefore it did not ran Sunday!

 

We ran a clean race Sunday but just didn't have the pace toward the end to hold off RBank and the Sahlen's boxter. Finished 5th.

 

Car improved about 2s a lap with the new motor swap. There is still time in driver improvement, but we had nothing for the the front 4 running consistent 1.15s.

 

Driving blind = 

 

 

Thank to all the Nelson Ledges workers and Champcar staff for the great work!

It was a great team effort with all the guys @ChrisG @samblane @Hinton @Hi_Im_Will and Jimmy Myers and Sean's son Aleko.

 

See y'all at PIRC.

image.png.a778f1ce424a5e0aaa4c2e97fd48ef61.png

//mike

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Technical Advisory Committee
On 7/19/2021 at 7:04 PM, Bill Strong said:

Sunday: One podium team had ten points added to the VPI, and one lap added, which did not change the outcome of the race.

 

 

Just learned the situation related to this.

 

A M54 swapped E30 repurposed the sunroof skin as a skid plate, even though the sunroof skin was replaced on the roof with aluminum sheet.  This added 2 points to a 500 point car.  

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Chris Huggins said:

A M54 swapped E30 repurposed the sunroof skin as a skid plate, even though the sunroof skin was replaced on the roof with aluminum sheet.  This added 2 points to a 500 point car.  

I don't know how 2 points is justified (unless they used less than 1 sq. ft. of the sunroof in making the skid plate)... off the top of my head that sunroof is about 4 sq. ft., which would be 12 points.

Regardless, it's good that points were added for this. Thanks tech!

Edited by enginerd
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, enginerd said:

I don't know how 2 points is justified (unless they used less than 1 sq. ft. of the sunroof in making the skid plate)... off the top of my head that sunroof is about 4 sq. ft., which would be 12 points.

Regardless, it's good that points were added for this. Thanks tech!

eh, it wasn't 2pts. It was somewhere between 1-9pts which means it's a single lap added. We didn't get that far into the weeds regarding sq footage. I showed my fancy PPT slides and shared the actual numbers and I am under 9pts add as I don't use the whole sunroof.

 

Where we got into the weeds was lack of clarity in repurposed material in certain areas (sun roof should be covered from a safety point of view or using the rear bulkhead material for the skid plate but then replace the bulkhead in the name of safety with all my fueling stuff back there). Something along the lines of like-for-like material wording might be helpful.

 

Thomas & Andrew were both there and helped me better understand. Good times all around. Calcs, claims and documents will be updated for PIRC.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/19/2021 at 11:26 PM, mostmint said:

I had a love hate relationship with this race weekend

 

Racing in the wet with running water on the track and standing water on the insides made Nelson Ledges a whole new track to race.  We started near the back and worked our way up to 14th, which was pretty good considering our lack of dry track pace.  The mighty Saturn was not going to keep up with the leaders but there were a lot of cars to pass.  This was my first full stint in the rain and it was fun.

 

Also got to see a lot of my ChampCar community friends, and race with them a little on track.

 

And my daughter made her road racing debut this weekend which was awesome.  She still has some work to do on pace but only put the car off track once and had contact which damaged a wheel.  It was a good next step in her driver development.

 

The wetness was otherwise incredibly annoying.  Bad weather on Thursday bent up the frame of our car tent, it was almost impossible to stay dry until Sunday. 

On Sunday the reality of the ChampCar collective teams developing their cars the past several years to leverage updates rules hit.  There were only two cars with slower FTD than us - with a package that was podium car in 2018 and class winner in 2019 at the same track.

 

Hats off to Nelson Ledges for all the updates and somehow making the track drivable despite all the downpours that had the ground so soaked. 

 

1 hour ago, mostmint said:

This whole situation would be simpler if we were not repurposing parts.  

yeah, but repurposing  bring out creativity 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, MichaelPal said:

eh, it wasn't 2pts. It was somewhere between 1-9pts which means it's a single lap added. We didn't get that far into the weeds regarding sq footage. I showed my fancy PPT slides and shared the actual numbers and I am under 9pts add as I don't use the whole sunroof.

 

Where we got into the weeds was lack of clarity in repurposed material in certain areas (sun roof should be covered from a safety point of view or using the rear bulkhead material for the skid plate but then replace the bulkhead in the name of safety with all my fueling stuff back there). Something along the lines of like-for-like material wording might be helpful.

 

Thomas & Andrew were both there and helped me better understand. Good times all around. Calcs, claims and documents will be updated for PIRC.

So I'm pretty sure covering the sunroof should be zero points. We put a metal roof on our first car (300ZX) to cover the T-tops and it was zero points. 

But if I read right, you took metal out of the rear bulkhead to use for a skidplate, then put FREE metal in the rear bulkhead to separate the driver's compartment from the fuel tank, lines, etc.? 

  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Snorman said:

So I'm pretty sure covering the sunroof should be zero points. We put a metal roof on our first car (300ZX) to cover the T-tops and it was zero points. 

But if I read right, you took metal out of the rear bulkhead to use for a skidplate, then put FREE metal in the rear bulkhead to separate the driver's compartment from the fuel tank, lines, etc.? 

The e30 has a steel sunroof. I welded mine shut, but you could deal with the sunroof hole (required) by covering it with something else, aluminium perhaps. If you make an aluminium cover, you shouldn’t then get to use the original steel panel somewhere else under the free repurpose rule. 
 

Same goes for the rear bulkhead. Back in 2014, I completely removed the steel bulkhead separating the trunk from the passenger compartment (backseat backrest) to save weight. In 2019 I installed a trunk fuel cell requiring a bulkhead separator. I made this bulkhead from aluminium, and I cannot refashion the original bulkhead as a free wing/air dam. 

Edited by enginerd
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, enginerd said:

The e30 has a steel sunroof. I welded mine shut, but you could deal with the sunroof hole (required) by covering it with something else, aluminium perhaps. If you make an aluminium cover, you shouldn’t then get to use the original steel panel somewhere else under the free repurpose rule. 

(Devil's advocate)

What if he used a roof net, or arm restraints instead of the aluminum panel over the hole?

(/devil's advocate)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, ABR-Glen said:

(Devil's advocate)

What if he used a roof net, or arm restraints instead of the aluminum panel over the hole?

(/devil's advocate)

I still see a substitution. The steel sunroof has been replaced by something else which does the job. Parts which have been replaced can’t be used for free.

 

Arm restraints… I’ll have to think on that one. Although I think sunroofs are required to be covered

Edited by enginerd
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, enginerd said:

The e30 has a steel sunroof. I welded mine shut, but you could deal with the sunroof hole (required) by covering it with something else, aluminium perhaps. If you make an aluminium cover, you shouldn’t then get to use the original steel panel somewhere else under the free repurpose rule. 
 

Same goes for the rear bulkhead. Back in 2014, I completely removed the steel bulkhead separating the trunk from the passenger compartment (backseat backrest) to save weight. In 2019 I installed a trunk fuel cell requiring a bulkhead separator. I made this bulkhead from aluminium, and I cannot refashion the original bulkhead as a free wing/air dam. 

Yeah, so the sunroof is free, either by welding the steel cover in place or by removing it and using a piece of metal to cover the opening. But you can't then take the OE steel and fashion it into something else for free. 

And 100% what I'm saying about the OE bulkhead. You can't remove the OE bulkhead, fashion a "free" bulkhead (required by rules) out of different material, then take the OE material and make something. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, enginerd said:

The e30 has a steel sunroof. I welded mine shut, but you could deal with the sunroof hole (required) by covering it with something else, aluminium perhaps. If you make an aluminium cover, you shouldn’t then get to use the original steel panel somewhere else under the free repurpose rule. 
 

Same goes for the rear bulkhead. Back in 2014, I completely removed the steel bulkhead separating the trunk from the passenger compartment (backseat backrest) to save weight. In 2019 I installed a trunk fuel cell requiring a bulkhead separator. I made this bulkhead from aluminium, and I cannot refashion the original bulkhead as a free wing/air dam. 

 

6 hours ago, Snorman said:

Yeah, so the sunroof is free, either by welding the steel cover in place or by removing it and using a piece of metal to cover the opening. But you can't then take the OE steel and fashion it into something else for free. 

And 100% what I'm saying about the OE bulkhead. You can't remove the OE bulkhead, fashion a "free" bulkhead (required by rules) out of different material, then take the OE material and make something. 

 

Correct. This is what happened and what I learned. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, MichaelPal said:

 

 

Correct. This is what happened and what I learned. 

Try as we may, there ends up being a lot of learning in tech inspection.  For instance the dash bar I have (since 2011) has a bend in it and it looks like its 30 degrees and that is too much of an anlge so now it needs a gussett to shore it up.  And SFI/FIA approved means it can't be expired (HANS) according to those entities rules. 

Edited by mostmint
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, mostmint said:

Try as we may, there ends up being a lot of learning in tech inspection.  For instance the dash bar I have has a bend in it and it looks like its 30 degrees and that is too much of an anlge so now it needs a gussett to shore it up.  And SFI/FIA approved means it can't be expired (HANS) according to those entities rules. 

I'd be arguing the dash bar.  If it doesn't say you can't do it, and it is done in a safe way, take it to the race director.

 

If it is done in a way that I'd dangerous or doesn't meet a minimum level of safety, then I guess that's tough luck.

 

At the end of the day, if it isn't in the bccr, appeal to the higher power (race director).

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...