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How does the club want to determine when a car's VPI gets reviewed?


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6 hours ago, MR2 Biohazard said:

We pulled him at let hp and more weight. I would then assume he has less hp due to fuel strategy.

 

They pulled on my v6, 2 years ago at Road America on the straight.

 

Regardless, having built and tuned B series motors for over 20 years I stick with my statement. They have conservatively 180whp with a race weight I would guess under 2000lbs with driver. 

 

With the swap weight as it is on the CRX I could put together a reliable B series motor over 200whp and a K series motor over 230whp with lots of points for aero and suspension. The CRX doesn't have fuel for it at HP tracks, but I could put it together.

 

I had a caged CRX and CIVC in my garage and seriously contemplated a diesel CRX which would not be fuel limited, but instead I decided on a platform with a larger tank and which doesn't require a swap to be competitive. 

 

I actually don't think RBANK has maximized the HP swap potential on their build; they don't have fuel for it. Which I think just reinforces how bizarre the 2300lb swap weight is for that platform. 

Edited by veris
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On 8/23/2021 at 10:29 PM, Snorman said:

~7 GPH seems pretty farfetched for 200 HP IMO

A few years ago, a Civic team was outed at Sebring for running 2 hours on fuel with a swap. Turns out, they were running a modified tank and probably holding ~15 gallons with a helluva' lot less than 200 HP. 

Fuel burn is VERY track dependent. My car ranges from 7 to 12+ GPH. Road America would be in the 10 GPH range. Brainerd 12... Tracks with small straights are around the 7-8 range. 

Edited by veris
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1 hour ago, veris said:

 

They pulled on my v6, 2 years ago at Road America on the straight.

 

Regardless, having built and tuned B series motors for over 20 years I stick with my statement. They have conservatively 180whp with a race weight I would guess under 2000lbs with driver. 

 

With the swap weight as it is on the CRX I could put together a reliable B series motor over 200whp and a K series motor over 230whp with lots of points for aero and suspension. The CRX doesn't have fuel for it at HP tracks, but I could put it together.

 

I had a caged CRX and CIVC in my garage and seriously contemplated a diesel CRX which would not be fuel limited, but instead I decided on a platform with a larger tank and which doesn't require a swap to be competitive. 

 

I actually don't think RBANK has maximized the HP swap potential on their build; they don't have fuel for it. Which I think just reinforces how bizarre the 2300lb swap weight is for that platform. 

Just pointing out that this is not Robin Banks team.  They are associated.  This is 90racing.  This car is based out of the Midwest, not Pittsburgh, pa.

 

@Andrew D Johnson

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53 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Just pointing out that this is not Robin Banks team.  They are associated.  This is 90racing.  This car is based out of the Midwest, not Pittsburgh, pa.

 

@Andrew D Johnson

RBank is the team, RBank drivers & funding. Honda expert Andrew built the car and preps it but it’s definitely RBank. And 90racing is a name that the RBank team often registers under. 

Edited by enginerd
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I was referring to the RBANK / 90racing CRX. I know there is some affiliation and that there is a CRX and a turbo SAAB from that group(s). 

 

Both well put together, both well run, and both well respected.  I suspect they are like my team. Same core group/team, two cars, with two principals/owners.

Edited by veris
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10 minutes ago, veris said:

I was referring to the RBANK / 90racing CRX. I know there is some affiliation and that there is a CRX and a turbo SAAB from that group(s). 

 

Both well put together, both well run, and both well respected.  I suspect they are like my team. Same core group/team, two cars, with two principals/owners.

Exactly.

 

Good way to explain it.

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17 minutes ago, enginerd said:

RBank is the team, RBank drivers & funding. Honda expert Andrew built the car and preps it but it’s definitely RBank. And 90racing is a name that the RBank team often registers under. 

Don't go trying to give the team based out of Pittsburgh credit for what Andrew is doing with that tiny Honda!  I know they are "the same team", but Andrew and his dad do crazy stuff that works with their racecar.  They should have the respect they deserve and not just lumped in with...

 

...."The most successful team in champcar history"...  I mean, those guys are bums.

 

Lolz.

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For some clarification we (the vette) on Saturday in the last hour or so lost our fuel pump and had to drive at %20-25 throttle to keep the AFR’s lower than 17-1. We just limped it in to hold onto second. The crx is no slouch on the straights but there are cars out there with better pwr/lbs for sure. Heck we had trouble on the straights with one of the visceral cars. 

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  • Technical Advisory Committee
9 hours ago, mcoppola said:

Depends who was driving the Corvette, and/or if they were conserving fuel. I was shocked when our Focus pulled them down the straights too.

 

2 hours ago, Indysupra said:

For some clarification we (the vette) on Saturday in the last hour or so lost our fuel pump and had to drive at %20-25 throttle to keep the AFR’s lower than 17-1. We just limped it in to hold onto second. The crx is no slouch on the straights but there are cars out there with better pwr/lbs for sure. Heck we had trouble on the straights with one of the visceral cars. 

Thanks for explaining. 

You guys ran some great races! Great job with your car. It was a pleasure to be pitted near you guys, and meet.

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  • Technical Advisory Committee
2 hours ago, Jamie said:

Can someone give me a TLDR? My activity feed is just full of @MR2 Biohazard in this thread. 

Here it is. Short version. 
One guy that was on the tac, and now on the board, raises the question in the subject line. Another guy, who writes multiple petitions each year trying to improve parity for a lot of different types of cars, gets elected to the board, and still remains on that mission. 
tac and BoD regularly discuss car values, tac makes suggestions, board makes final decisions. 
 some of the cars being reviewed are found to have attributes snd performance  potential that could upset the balance of the field. Naturally, car owners building the cars being reviewed are upset because any VPI changes will affect their build and Performance potential. 
some folks get the impression that others are out to “get them” via abuse of power. (One person cannot make any decisions here, unless maybe you’re the ceo) 
Names are called, some low blows and false accusations are made, motives are questioned, but for the most part, all parties involved acted like adults. Some very good points were brought up by all sides of the “discussion.”

A separate thread is formed about the NC Miata, since that was one of the cars in question.

some members offer assistance by answering the subject line and coming up with an outline that Details a proposed process. The process is discussed a bit, it may be a good basis for a potential process the series can tweak and use. 
 

Many pages of drama, passion, emotion, whatever you want to call it - but hopefully some good will come out of these difficult discussions. 
 

thanks to all who passionately provide input and thanks for keeping it somewhat civil. 

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Sounds about right. VPI is hard to do right and adjusting or not adjusting it pissed people off. Fuel to weight based classes. Weigh your car once a year to determine your class and how much fuel you get in the pits. Check the weight of the top 6 cars in impound. Want to run a oil cooler to make your 1990 rx7 finish the race, fine. Want to put some 50 way adjustable suspension part on fine. Min weight of something like 2100 and change classes every I dunno 500lbs. Still compete for overall win. Would need to make a crude race simulator to make sure things dont get lopsided in longer formats. 

But none of this matters to me I just want to race

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3 hours ago, Jamie said:

Fuel to weight based classes. Weigh your car once a year to determine your class and how much fuel you get in the pits. Check the weight of the top 6 cars in impound. Want to run a oil cooler to make your 1990 rx7 finish the race, fine. Want to put some 50 way adjustable suspension part on fine. Min weight of something like 2100 and change classes every I dunno 500lbs. Still compete for overall win. Would need to make a crude race simulator to make sure things dont get lopsided in longer formats. 

Oh my gosh go make your own series already. 

Edited by enginerd
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We now have a new entrant for "The Series Needs to Change to This Format"...fuel to weight.

This joins the oft debated VPI-based classing and power to weight proposals that would result in a complete overhaul of the series. 

I think I shall propose new, qualifying-based classing that relies on lap times. Or maybe colors. I haven't decided yet.

 

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1 hour ago, Snorman said:

We now have a new entrant for "The Series Needs to Change to This Format"...fuel to weight.

This joins the oft debated VPI-based classing and power to weight proposals that would result in a complete overhaul of the series. 

I think I shall propose new, qualifying-based classing that relies on lap times. Or maybe colors. I haven't decided yet.

 

I’ve been dreaming of a “number of doors” classed series 

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On 8/27/2021 at 7:40 PM, enginerd said:

Oh my gosh go make your own series already. 

 

My observation is that is how you ruin your personal love for the sport. Plus who has time for that? 

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