paulstreet Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 (edited) We just built a BMW330 for Champ car and it starts with 530 points our first race with it will be Barber in December. My question is , if we decided to build a different car to get below the 500 points we are considering 2 options. 1- A E46 BMW 325 2-1986 944. Both of these cars fall below the 500 points but have very little HP. If I upgraded the engine of the E46 BMW 325 to a 3.0L would that car then be a 530 point car or would it stay a 450 point car ? If I upgraded the engine of the Porsche 944 to a 3.0L from a later S2 model would that car then be a 520 point car or would it stay a 350 point car ? We already have a 325 and a 944 we can build but the 944 with an S2 motor seems like a better option ? I see a few 944s that seem to do very well and I'm kind of wondering if we possibly built the wrong car . Thank you Edited September 15, 2021 by paulstreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 Ooph. Complicated answers to these questions... Check out the engine swap sections and platform swap sections of the rulebook. Quick answer: if you put in the 3.0 engine, you have basically recreated a 330. You would use the value of the 330. That being said, if you put in the engine and trans from the 325 into your current car (If current car is an e46), you could claim the 325 value. In other words, vins don't matter. The vehicles are valued based on how they are presented at tech and impound. That means if it started as a 325 and it now has all 330 "stuff", it is now a 330. The Porsche 944 have some interesting rules regarding that platform. I'm not sure if it's ever been fixed. Basically, I believe you CAN swap in a s2 engine into the 944 and use the simple swap calculator. This ends up a lower value than the s2 value. That being said, it's probably time for y'all to go study the swap rules and platform swap rules and get familiar with the swap calculator. Good luck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Infiniti Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 OR you could continue with the new build, put a torque convertor automatic trans (and all the associated wires/computers) in and deduct 75 pts 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulstreet Posted September 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 (edited) Yeah I looked at the conversion chart and a 944 that came with 2.5L swap to a 3.0L is a 500 point car , less than a standard S2. That may be the way to go . Edited September 14, 2021 by paulstreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMW_CEMETERY Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 5 minutes ago, paulstreet said: Yeah I looked an a 944 that came with 2.5L swap to a 3.0L is a 500 point car , less than a standard S2. That may be the way to go . I wouldn't hold my breath on this staying as the case. Do they share the same gas tank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulstreet Posted September 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 1 hour ago, BMW_CEMETERY said: I wouldn't hold my breath on this staying as the case. Do they share the same gas tank? It does appear the standard 944 came with a smaller fuel tank 17.6 as opposed to the 21.2 of a S2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronh911 Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 2 hours ago, paulstreet said: It does appear the standard 944 came with a smaller fuel tank 17.6 as opposed to the 21.2 of a S2. All 85.5 and newer 944s have the same 21.1 gallon tank. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavro Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 5 hours ago, Team Infiniti said: OR you could continue with the new build, put a torque convertor automatic trans (and all the associated wires/computers) in and deduct 75 pts There are cars on the VPI list with paddle operated torque converter automatics that can be electronically tuned for track use that make this an interesting option. I have considered acquiring one as a daily and running some track days with it to see how good/bad reliable/unreliable an idea this might be. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronh911 Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 41 minutes ago, gavro said: There are cars on the VPI list with paddle operated torque converter automatics that can be electronically tuned for track use that make this an interesting option. I have considered acquiring one as a daily and running some track days with it to see how good/bad reliable/unreliable an idea this might be. Boxster S, I might know a guy who is familiar with them. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodger Coan-Burningham Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 Paul, Welcome to the forum. You and I have already talked about some of this, so won't repeat that. If I had those choices you laid out, there is no way I touch a 944 with an S2, just too expensive. An E46 with M54B25 won the national champtionship a couple of years ago. There are parts everywhere in salvage yards. There is spec E46 support that might come in handy from a suspension standpoint. Superior abs system. Can get pretty light. Have points for aero. Enough fuel on a tune. Easy choice given those two choices. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulstreet Posted September 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 Roger Yeah I think you may be right. We already have a 325 we bought a couple months ago and I'm thinking exactly that . It is an automatic and we were planning to convert to manual but who knows we may take everything out and see what the weight difference is and maybe consider the auto. The car we built is fine and we knew the points when we built it but now that we have it completed we have time to start on a second car and trying to decide which one to build and we already have one . The 325 E46 may make a pretty decent car and we already have one. We have a 944 also but it may be too nice to make a race car out of. Thanks for the welcome . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 How bout the 330 engine with the auto from the 325? Should be starting at like 445? Right? 520 -75. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mender Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 Run what you have for now and see what direction you think it needs to go. BMW is a good choice to start from and you have options. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grufton Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 14 hours ago, Rodger Coan-Burningham said: An E46 with M54B25 won the national champtionship a couple of years ago. I may be wrong, but I thought that car was a M52tuB25 (so 450pts base value). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Chris Huggins Posted September 15, 2021 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 14 minutes ago, Grufton said: I may be wrong, but I thought that car was a M52tuB25 (so 450pts base value). Correct, Damson is a 323i Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulstreet Posted September 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 4 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said: How bout the 330 engine with the auto from the 325? Should be starting at like 445? Right? 520 -75. Thought about this. We have a spare 3.0L already . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulstreet Posted September 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, mender said: Run what you have for now and see what direction you think it needs to go. BMW is a good choice to start from and you have options. Yep agreed that is the plan but we have an extra car and building a car in spare time takes a long time so we are just thinking ahead . Still lots to learn with the current car and while starting 3 laps down we were aware of it when we built the car so can't feel bad about that just thinking of what next . Lots to learn . Edited September 15, 2021 by paulstreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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