2022 Petitions - How your board of directors voted

[Bill Strong]

9/23/2021 

Per a ChampCar member request, the BOD has provided a document as to how they voted on the 2022 BCCR member petitions.

https://champcar.org/web/pdf/bod/BOD-Petition-Responses-2021.pdf

[gundy]

#9  "Allow Aluminum 0 Points"   Aluminum what?

[wvumtnbkr]

9 hours ago, gundy said:

#9  "Allow Aluminum 0 Points"   Aluminum what?

I believe radiators.

[ross2004]

Mike's keyboard: NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN 

 

done

[Andrew D Johnson]

11 minutes ago, ross2004 said:

Mike's keyboard: NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN 

 

done

lolz

I don't think Mike voted, so everything defaulted to NO. 

[Chris Huggins]

Mike verbally told us his answer was NO for every petition. 

[petawawarace]

This is great start, thanks.  Any word on when or if the results of the members feedback on petitions will be released?

I would think that’s readily available as it should have been tallied and presented to the BOD before they voted right?

[Chris Huggins]

1 hour ago, petawawarace said:

This is great start, thanks.  Any word on when or if the results of the members feedback on petitions will be released?

I would think that’s readily available as it should have been tallied and presented to the BOD before they voted right?

 

It was tallied and reviewed by the board during the petition process.  The numbers were presented as part of the annual meeting in the powerpoint.

 

This was submitted by each member and was not destined to be public, and I don't see the need for other members to see how other members voted.

 

The board has answered yours and other members requests to provide our individual responses.

 

This matter is now resolved.

[petawawarace]

10 minutes ago, Chris Huggins said:

 

It was tallied and reviewed by the board during the petition process.  The numbers were presented as part of the annual meeting in the powerpoint.

 

This was submitted by each member and was not destined to be public, and I don't see the need for other members to see how other members voted.

 

The board has answered yours and other members requests to provide our individual responses.

 

This matter is now resolved.

You’ve really turned sour with this whole deal eh Chris? That’s unfortunate.  
 

Why is the BOD taking a stance that they don’t want to reveal how the membership voted? 51 members provided feedback and comments. If 49 of them wanted something done about tires (as an example) and the the BoD decided they didn’t, there’s a huge problem there.  
 

These are the sort of documents that Champcar is legally required to provide when asked by a member of the organization, but your not doing that.  I’m curious as to why that is?   

[wvumtnbkr]

2 hours ago, petawawarace said:

You’ve really turned sour with this whole deal eh Chris? That’s unfortunate.  
 

Why is the BOD taking a stance that they don’t want to reveal how the membership voted? 51 members provided feedback and comments. If 49 of them wanted something done about tires (as an example) and the the BoD decided they didn’t, there’s a huge problem there.  
 

These are the sort of documents that Champcar is legally required to provide when asked by a member of the organization, but your not doing that.  I’m curious as to why that is?   

Maybe I'm missing it, but the members vote totals and how they voted were part of the annual BOD meeting presentation.  (Chris said this in the above response that you quoted).

 

Isn't that exactly what you are asking for?

 

I would prefer my comments were kept confidential, however, my general yes/no is fine to share.

[petawawarace]

5 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Maybe I'm missing it, but the members vote totals and how they voted were part of the annual BOD meeting presentation.  (Chris said this in the above response that you quoted).

 

Isn't that exactly what you are asking for?

 

I would prefer my comments were kept confidential, however, my general yes/no is fine to share.

I was asking about the votes that each of the 51 members that responded to the petitions made.  And yes it’s the yes/no to each petition that should be shared. 
I don’t believe that those were ever shared.  I’ve looked through the power point and I can’t find any of it. There are stats on what the actual petitions were and how many were about which subject but nothing on the feedback from members.  
 

If I am wrong, please point me in the right direction.  

[wvumtnbkr]

23 minutes ago, petawawarace said:

I was asking about the votes that each of the 51 members that responded to the petitions made.  And yes it’s the yes/no to each petition that should be shared. 
I don’t believe that those were ever shared.  I’ve looked through the power point and I can’t find any of it. There are stats on what the actual petitions were and how many were about which subject but nothing on the feedback from members.  
 

If I am wrong, please point me in the right direction.  

Huh.  I couldn't find it anywhere either...

[Snorman]

2 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Huh.  I couldn't find it anywhere either...

The member voting results were shared in the past years, but they were not shared this year. Which was curious. This was one slide from this year's presentation: 

 

This is a slide from last year's presentation. Personally, from what I've seen over the last year, I wouldn't hold my breath hoping to see member vote tallies on petitions going forward. I plan to submit a petition that converts the membership voting on a petition to a vote on that petition ("Yes" or "No"). But I'm pretty certain even if it is overwhelmingly supported by the members, no way the BOD passes it. 

[Bill Strong]

it's not pretty. and for some reason i had a glitch in the matrix after #84.

and again. it's not pretty. i am on the road.

no member identifiable info is included  just yes/no/needs further review 

 

 

2022 BCCR Petition Form Member Voting (Responses)- totals.pdf

[hotrod]

Looks like there are several petitions that were heavily voted in favor of from the membership yet voted down by the BoD.  

[MR2 Biohazard]

Not what we see it a few things jump out at me. MikeC voting no on everything, hmm.

 

37 to 13 members want to get rid of fender flare rule.  3 BOD members said yes and 3 said no. I wonder why these board members disagreed with other board members and also disagreed with what members wanted as a majority. Maybe Tiffany, Bruce and Tiffany and can explain why? 

 

The results for tires seemed high that members do not want any tire rules, or at least the ones put forth. I was expecting members to want some tire rules. That went against my gut feeling that most members would want some tire rules, maybe not then. I wonder if this is really do the sample size or a real representation of the vast majority of members?

 

37 to 9 - 1 minute penalty for speeding the pits. Why did the board decide to do not a penalty for speeding in the pits? When working the pit lane at VIR N I saw a team speed in the pits a good 2 or 3 times, on radar gun, and nothing came from it at all. If they are not going to do anything then why even have a pit speed lane rule then?

 

Petition 68 surprised me as 35 to 9 to leave jugs on the ground. OK, if it is strong like that then shouldn't we make a it rule? I am not in favor of it personally, but if most want it then shouldn't we do it?

 

Superseded Porsche parts- 44 to 3 but got voted overall as a no. huh, I wonder what happened there.

 

My two big takeaways is I wish we could get more participation in the processes from more members. Having around 50 members comment and vote on these out of thousands is really terrible.

 

2nd is it is really great to see what members want, what the board voted and how it came out. Now we need to have meeting minutes/notes come out here also. Per the bylaws, which is legally how the board and organization are supposed to be run, then we have to meeting minutes and make them public. The entire purpose of the secretary is to take those notes and get them published. I am not sure why these have never been published or maybe they were not done, either way, we have to fix this going forward as it is in the bylaws.

 

 

[jakks]

Troy, 

As a member that has volunteered a lot and Jackie works pit out, we don’t have the staff to sit and radar each car going down pit road. A long pit road would probably require 2 staff and 2 guns. Those who look like they are speeding or caught with the gun when it’s used have a stern talking to at pit road which is of in itself a penalty, at least enough to take back what they gained. We see a lot less speeding on pit road since Dana went to 20mph at every race.

With Flagtronics coming about there may be more enforcement, but we don’t need a set in stone penalty. 

[mhr650]

Yeah all the pit lane procedures will change with Flagtronics. Seems like it would be easy to program the system to just add a minute if it detected speeding in the pit lane. It would infuriate anyone caught, but how could you argue. 

[enginerd]

You don’t need to make a rule for every little thing. Set a pit lane speed limit in the event supps. Everyone knows what a speed limit is. Let the event director dole out punishments as they see fit. 

Edited September 25, 2021 by enginerd

[Bill Strong]

and that's what we do.  

20mph at all tracks starting Jan 1, 2021.

[Originalsterm]

4 hours ago, MR2 Biohazard said:

 

My two big takeaways is I wish we could get more participation in the processes from more members. Having around 50 members comment and vote on these out of thousands is really terrible.

 

How do member votes impact the BOD votes? It looks like they don’t. Maybe you’re right, maybe 500 in favor of a change would actually pass the board. 

[MR2 Biohazard]

4 hours ago, jakks said:

Troy, 

As a member that has volunteered a lot and Jackie works pit out, we don’t have the staff to sit and radar each car going down pit road. A long pit road would probably require 2 staff and 2 guns. Those who look like they are speeding or caught with the gun when it’s used have a stern talking to at pit road which is of in itself a penalty, at least enough to take back what they gained. We see a lot less speeding on pit road since Dana went to 20mph at every race.

With Flagtronics coming about there may be more enforcement, but we don’t need a set in stone penalty. 

I do not think staffing it would be that hard, but after working multiple events most have volunteer on pit lane. One can have the radar gun and report in. Easy enough. I have also worked pit out and know it can be the hardest job there is.  We have two options then. Black flag them after they go out and make them come back in and talk to Jimmy. Then Jackie has no worries. Easy and done.

 

Flagtronics can catch people all day long in pit lane speeding and that can really help.

 

I think the main thing here is there needs to be accountability. I know for a fact a team was speeding, 10+ over, at VIR 3 times on speed gun, was called in and when they went to pit out they just went. That is the issue that needs to be addressed.

2 hours ago, enginerd said:

You don’t need to make a rule for every little thing. Set a pit lane speed limit in the event supps. Everyone knows what a speed limit is. Let the event director dole out punishments as they see fit. 

I think that is the issue. Pit speed limit is 20mph at all events, but what if you just do not feel like going that fast and do what you want? 

[JDChristianson]

3 hours ago, enginerd said:

Let the event director dole out punishments as they see fit. 

I understand what your saying, but this seems to lead to inconsistent enforcement.   If things are spelled out a bit more,  it gives the event director something to back up their penalty decision and should make their life easier.   

[jakks]

3 hours ago, MR2 Biohazard said:

I do not think staffing it would be that hard, but after working multiple events most have volunteer on pit lane. One can have the radar gun and report in. Easy enough. I have also worked pit out and know it can be the hardest job there is.  We have two options then. Black flag them after they go out and make them come back in and talk to Jimmy. Then Jackie has no worries. Easy and done.

 

Flagtronics can catch people all day long in pit lane speeding and that can really help.

 

I think the main thing here is there needs to be accountability. I know for a fact a team was speeding, 10+ over, at VIR 3 times on speed gun, was called in and when they went to pit out they just went. That is the issue that needs to be addressed.

I think that is the issue. Pit speed limit is 20mph at all events, but what if you just do not feel like going that fast and do what you want? 

Pit lane speeding is one of the least of our worries as an organization. Those that are egregiously speeding are spoken to. We don't need to give up resources on it. Most races do not have enough volunteers much less staff to give up a body for it. 

[MR2 Biohazard]

11 hours ago, jakks said:

Pit lane speeding is one of the least of our worries as an organization. Those that are egregiously speeding are spoken to. We don't need to give up resources on it. Most races do not have enough volunteers much less staff to give up a body for it. 

Maybe we are at different races and most members think we should do something about it. Having worked pit lane at multiple races I have seen it and continue to see it.

 

It is not giving up a free body to at all. How does it take up so much resources. As a person who has worked pit lane, give me a radar gun, please please do. We all have headsets on. Done! Most volunteers are bored most of the day. It would give me a reprieve from saying, visors down 1,000 times. If you think I can not hold a radar gun and hit a button every so often and still say visors down then you have zero faith in our volunteers.

 

The process in detail.

Person in pit lane, pulls up radar gun, this is an easy item to use, hits button, radar gun reads 31, pin lane guy then reaches hand to headset, pushes button on side, says car XXX was going 31 on pit lane, Jimmy is on the same channel and expects that person in black flag in like 5 minutes. He writes down number.  Race control calls black flag station on car XXX.

 

You do that at a race or two and I bet most speeding violations stop.

 

Personalty, the issue I see is all this happened the day I was at VIR. The only issue is the team had the stern talking to at pit out, which equated to nothing. They got to pit out early so it gave them time to get yelled out each time. So did they, nope, next pit stop same thing, did that stop them, nope, next pit stop same thing.

 

The members want it, it is in place, we should do it.