2021 Pittsburgh Race results and stuff

[Bill Strong]

results

https://speedhive.mylaps.com/Events/1922599

[MichaelPal]

Oh the highs and lows of a race weekend.

 

3rd place Saturday, best ever finish for us, so proud of the team and all the hard work! Sunday had an early morning impact to balance out that karma.

 

A teaching moment during the Sunday morning Red Flag: look ahead at what is happening in front of you (impact @ 21.00).

 

 

1. Flagtronics comes on ahead of the start-finish line and is active for 8sec ahead of impact. I assume the following car also has it installed.
2. There is a red flag displayed at turn 1.
3. You can clearly see that the driver has line of sight of our car (look at the review mirror).
4. We were not fully stopped, we are still travelling 24mph at time of impact.
5. It was not an abrupt stop. Driver decelerated from 100mph to 24mph in roughly 6 seconds. That works out to be ~ 0.6g of deceleration, less than heavy braking for a corner.
6. We were running the FIA rain light on the rear of the car, it was ON.

 

I have no ill will and it's just a racing incident...car is repairable and we will be back next year! 

 

Edited October 4, 2021 by MichaelPal
Corrected the flag station number.

[Racer28173]

There is an obvious flaw in Flagtronics. It needs to have a second light panel mounted to the back of the car so that the following car has an indication of track conditions.  I don’t know why they didn’t think of that.  

It should be mounted up high so that it doesn’t get damaged when you get rammed

 

all of the above is in green font (do we still use that?)

Edited October 4, 2021 by Racer28173

[MichaelPal]

6 minutes ago, Racer28173 said:

There is an obvious flaw in Flagtronics. It needs to have a second light panel mounted to the back of the car so that the following car has an indication of track conditions.  I don’t know why they didn’t think of that.  

It should be mounted up high so that it doesn’t get damaged when you get rammed

 

all of the above is in green font (do we still use that?)

 

Anything to increase situational awareness!

 

On the flagtronics, the system really worked great! The main issues that need to be ironed out are the human aspects. Resetting local yellows and the time delay between flagtronics and the flagger stations. Dana's message in the driver meetings was to always defer to the safer option, but most people always deferred to the most advantageous option. For example if the flagtronics displays a local yellow, but there is no visible yellow flag, most people kept on racing. Or when going back to green, if the flag stations had yellows displayed, but the flagtronics was green, people went back to 100%. 

 

The sync between human and machine is the highest area for improvement at the moment from my point of view. Managing that with different flaggers across the county will be difficult to get that consistency, but we can try! 

[Fitsbain]

This is just the thoughts on one chef,

 

If the corner workers had a box with a series of compartments, one per flag, then removing or replacing the flags in the box would trigger the flagtronics units so the worker would not have to deal with flags and electronics.

 

The incident above happened as our car was on fire (Yup we caused the red flag).

 

[Money Shift Racing]

We were the following car in this incident. Not here to make excuses and trust me when I say we feel terrible for ruining both of our weekends. I am happy to hear from Mike that their driver is doing ok and so is ours. Incidents like this feel like such a sucker punch.

 

There are a lot of factors that went into this but ultimately it does boil down to awareness. We are using this as a teachable moment and as a team captain I am already marking plans to change where our flagtronics is mounted and how we brief/debrief our drivers after each session both during the race and during testing. 
 

Nobody ever comes to track with the intentions of things ending this way. I apologize in this public forum (and already apologized to Mike via our email conversation earlier today) for the part we played. It’s unfortunate and we are feeling like crap for being “that team”.

 

 

I will try to edit this post later to include video from our car as sons as I have it cut from the full video. Our car is fixable so we should be out for the race at Ozarks in April.

 

to Mike and team:

 

Let us know your plans for 2022 and what your “good beer” preferences. The next few rounds are totally on us. 

Edited October 5, 2021 by Money Shift Racing
Added video link

[samblane]

6 hours ago, Fitsbain said:

This is just the thoughts on one chef,

 

If the corner workers had a box with a series of compartments, one per flag, then removing or replacing the flags in the box would trigger the flagtronics units so the worker would not have to deal with flags and electronics.

 

The incident above happened as our car was on fire (Yup we caused the red flag).

 

That is a great idea!  A simple contact switch or optical sensor so the corner worker wouldn't have to think about it.

[enginerd]

8 hours ago, Fitsbain said:

This is just the thoughts on one chef,

 

If the corner workers had a box with a series of compartments, one per flag, then removing or replacing the flags in the box would trigger the flagtronics units so the worker would not have to deal with flags and electronics.

 

The incident above happened as our car was on fire (Yup we caused the red flag).

 

They have made or are making light boards for each corner. No waving flags, just an LED board that turns yellow for yellow, red for red, etc. Corner worker presses a button for local yellow and it simultaneously turns his light board yellow and triggers the flagtronics system. 

[enginerd]

This reminds me of Chicago highway driving where there are tons of slowdowns and abrupt stops. Whenever I see a slowdown ahead I spend as much of my focus on the rear view mirror as I do on the car ahead of me. I start slowing faster than I need to and gauge the closing rate from behind, if he’s gaining too quickly I lift off the brake to give him more time to slow. You can see in the video the car coming from behind and sometimes have to watch out for that. 

Edited October 5, 2021 by enginerd

[Chris Huggins]

Looks like the Honda didn't get the red flag at S/F.  The first red flag visible for that driver was at the point of impact, or at least too late for him to avoid.

 

Why he wasnt going left to pass the slowing car, well thats on the honda driver.  Don't hit what you can see.

 

Hard to see when the e30 gets the red flag.  I don't see it at the S/F which makes sense since the following honda didnt see it.  I do see it at the end of pit wall, but I don't know when the E30 started to see it vs when they started to react to flagtronics, which went red at S/F.

 

 

I predict this is the first of many incidents of this nature that occur until the community collectively figures out how to handle the simultaneous multiple systems of instruction for drivers.  Its another one of those things thats easy to discuss out of the car, and easy for champcar to say in the drivers meeting, but really, really hard to execute as a driver in a high-stimulus situation.  

 

 

 

Sucks that this happened, but it appears the teams have talked offline and are being cordial about the incident.  Thanks to both for posting video so the community can use it as a teachable moment.

[thewheelerZ]

That whole situation sucks for all.  Sorry to see that happen.  It definitely looks less egregious from the Civic's video.  Almost like hes braking for the corner, then.... oh crap hes coming to a stop! Totally on point for the BMW to slow up and let the emergency vehicles to enter the track.

 

Thanks to all for posting freely as a learning moment.  I will forward along to my team, likely with the message to make it as painfully obvious as you can that you are stopping on track. Off throttle, hardly on brakes to slow, and in this case off the racing line to make it even more obvious.

[Snorman]

No blame or finger pointing or any of that...but this seems like a good time to remind people: don't stop on the racing line during a red flag. 

 

[Money Shift Racing]

I would also like to point out that when we are replaying the videos to see what happens it inherently slows everything down because each time you watch you know what to expect so your level of anticipation is elevated.  Live or in real time all of this happens so much faster.

 

Also, thanks to the those that have replied so far for not flaming us.  We posted our video for transparency and learning purposes but I can also see where some may choose to withhold their data to attempt to avoid blame.

 

In this case we felt it was more important to get everything on the table in hopes that we all can learn from what transpired here.

 

~Kevyn

[Kentite]

60° Motorsports Chevy Beretta race report. We were only semi confident coming into this race. We blew our engine Sunday at Mid-Ohio and had to scramble to get the car going again for PIRC. Our initial plan was to reuse our old bottom end but upon assembly found a crack in the block. So that left us searching for an engine on a Saturday morning with one week to get the car ready. Found one and it was promptly dropped off the fork lift as it was being loaded in the truck. We had no choice at that point and used it anyhow. Got it in and the car aligned and everything seemed good. Upon arriving at the track this past Friday the car started running very rich. 7.8:1 AFR. We tinkered with it a bit but couldn’t get it sorted by green flag Saturday and decided just to run. We usually have no problem going two hours on fuel and figured it would be fine.

We got the lucky draw and started second behind Money Shift Racing.

We quickly managed to move the car to the lead and managed to hold P1 up to the red flag about 30 minutes into the race. During those 30 minutes we also managed to put down a 2:02.6 lap, which ended up being 5th fastest among non-EC cars. On the restart the 959 Visceral car managed to snag the lead. Man is that thing fast on the straight!!! We then lost second to the Sahlen’s Porsche and settled into 3rd for the next hour or so. Then we got the call on the radio. “Car is running out of fuel!” The driver managed to get it through turn 18 but couldn’t quite make it on pit lane. Then he sat there for three laps waiting to be towed in. I eventually had to find a pit marshal to call it in as we think the corner worker didn’t see us. Finally we get the car in and fuel but lost 6 laps. That dropped us to the bottom of the field with doubt in our minds about how far we can go on fuel. We did manage to work our way back and finish P10. Definitely a good result but not would we feel it could have been. We had a top 3-5 on hand for sure.

We spent Saturday night sorting the car and thought we had fixed the fuel issues. Spoiler alert, we didn’t!!! Started dead last Sunday and worked up to the top 10 or so in the first stint before it started running out of fuel. This time we at least managed to get it on pit lane and fuel the car. Although we were about 10 minutes short of our window so we would have to make an extra stop at some point. On the second stint the car started shaking violently on braking into turn one. It was like riding in a paint mixer but only at that corner. I’m fairly certain it is the left inner CV breaking apart.  We decided to push through it and keep track position for the last 5.5 hours. We hung in there, managed our pit stops with cautions and hung on to finish P7. Again not what could have been but a good finish none the less. Hopefully it is enough to qualify us for the National Championship but time will tell. If nothing else we proved to our selves that we can run towards the front and battle for podium finishes going forward. 
 

 

Edited October 5, 2021 by Kentite

[Andrew D Johnson]

I am not going to comment on this particular situation but I have seen some CRAZY stuff under red flags, and I go way out of my way to stay safe. This includes occasionally passing some cars during a red flag. 

When a red flag comes out, I lift and move opposite the racing line and then coast until I come up on the next flag station. 

If a red flag comes out in the beginning or middle of the back straightaway at Road Atlanta.......I am going to move way offline and coast all the way until the end of the straightaway where I can be easily seen. 

If a red flag comes out going into the front straight at Road America, I am not going to stop at the top of the hill where I can't be seen. I am going to coast all the way to pit out. 

If someone gets on the brakes in a bad spot, I have no problem coasting by them and stopping in a safe spot. 
 

[mcoppola]

47 minutes ago, Money Shift Racing said:

 We posted our video for transparency and learning purposes but I can also see where some may choose to withhold their data to attempt to avoid blame.

 

In this case we felt it was more important to get everything on the table in hopes that we all can learn from what transpired here.

 

~Kevyn

 

@Money Shift Racing Kevyn, have you thought about running for the BoD?

I admire not only your knowledge, but also your integrity and demeanor.

Not only now, always.

 

[Originalsterm]

30 minutes ago, Andrew D Johnson said:

If a red flag comes out going into the front straight at Road America, I am not going to stop at the top of the hill where I can't be seen. I am going to coast all the way to pit out. 

If someone gets on the brakes in a bad spot, I have no problem coasting by them and stopping in a safe spot. 
 

Sunday morning Dana explicitly said NOT to continue rolling along with a red flag flying. I agree to find a safe spot, but you don’t need to keep going until you find a flagger. I know this doesn’t mean to smoke the brakes, but I think with Flagtronics wiring you shouldn’t need to worry about seeing a flag station or finding a better spot as long as where you stop is safe. 

[Money Shift Racing]

24 minutes ago, mcoppola said:

 

@Money Shift Racing Kevyn, have you thought about running for the BoD?

I admire not only your knowledge, but also your integrity and demeanor.

Not only now, always.

 

Brief moments where I have considered it but with running our business, developing/repairing a race car, and also sitting on a board for a local non-profit organization/charity I would seriously have to consider the time requirements to devote to CCES. 

[mcoppola]

46 minutes ago, Kentite said:

60° Motorsports Chevy Beretta race report. We were only semi confident coming into this race. We blew our engine Sunday at Mid-Ohio and had to scramble to get the car going again for PIRC. Our initial plan was to reuse our old bottom end but upon assembly found a crack in the block. So that left us searching for an engine on a Saturday morning with one week to get the car ready. Found one and it was promptly dropped off the fork lift as it was being loaded in the truck. We had no choice at that point and used it anyhow. Got it in and the car aligned and everything seemed good. Upon arriving at the track this past Friday the car started running very rich. 7.8:1 AFR. We tinkered with it a bit but couldn’t get it sorted by green flag Saturday and decided just to run. We usually have no problem going two hours on fuel and figured it would be fine.

We got the lucky draw and started second behind Money Shift Racing.

We quickly managed to move the car to the lead and managed to hold P1 up to the red flag about 30 minutes into the race. During those 30 minutes we also managed to put down a 2:02.6 lap, which ended up being 5th fastest among non-EC cars. On the restart the 959 Visceral car managed to snag the lead. Man is that thing fast on the straight!!! We then lost second to the Sahlen’s Porsche and settled into 3rd for the next hour or so. Then we got the call on the radio. “Car is running out of fuel!” The driver managed to get it through turn 18 but couldn’t quite make it on pit lane. Then he sat there for three laps waiting to be towed in. I eventually had to find a pit marshal to call it in as we think the corner worker didn’t see us. Finally we get the car in and fuel but lost 6 laps. That dropped us to the bottom of the field with doubt in our minds about how far we can go on fuel. We did manage to work our way back and finish P10. Definitely a good result but not would we feel it could have been. We had a top 3-5 on hand for sure.

We spent Saturday night sorting the car and thought we had fixed the fuel issues. Spoiler alert, we didn’t!!! Started dead last Sunday and worked up to the top 10 or so in the first stint before it started running out of fuel. This time we at least managed to get it on pit lane and fuel the car. Although we were about 10 minutes short of our window so we would have to make an extra stop at some point. On the second stint the car started shaking violently on braking into turn one. It was like riding in a paint mixer but only at that corner. I’m fairly certain it is the left inner CV breaking apart.  We decided to push through it and keep track position for the last 5.5 hours. We hung in there, managed our pit stops with cautions and hung on to finish P7. Again not what could have been but a good finish none the less. Hopefully it is enough to qualify us for the National Championship but time will tell. If nothing else we proved to our selves that we can run towards the front and battle for podium finishes going forward. 

 

Wow!! I was only able to follow on and off over the weekend. Saw the 2 top tens, but didn't realize what you guys had to overcome for those finishes. And that the potential is there for even better results!! 

The Beretta is 1 of the nicest looking ChampCars out there, and has been for many years. The 60 Degree Motorsport team of Jeff @Kentite, Keith & Suzanne, and Garrett are some of the first (and finest) folks I met when we started out in ChampCar, many times as I was working as a pit marshal.

I'm glad to see the development and speed, and now results that the team is achieving. Like me, they choose to run something different than most, and have worked hard to sort out issues with an unknown platform, with little to no support. I applaud efforts like this!!! A few years back, Jeff was looking seriously at other platforms. Congratulations on having the drive, determination, and knowledge to overcome a lot of obstacles that would have prompted others to give up and switch!

 

Besides the admirable job they've done with their car, Jeff and Keith have been very supportive of our efforts to get on track. I recall how happy they were to see the Focus in its' 1st race at PIRC in 2015, and their team came out in full force to help crew for us when we entered a race at Mid Ohio in 2017. it's always a pleasure to network with and see you guys at the tracks. I wish we could've spent more time together at Mid Ohio, and look forward to seeing and racing with you again. Congrats on persevering!!

 

[Andrew D Johnson]

1 hour ago, Originalsterm said:

Sunday morning Dana explicitly said NOT to continue rolling along with a red flag flying. I agree to find a safe spot, but you don’t need to keep going until you find a flagger. I know this doesn’t mean to smoke the brakes, but I think with Flagtronics wiring you shouldn’t need to worry about seeing a flag station or finding a better spot as long as where you stop is safe. 

My car sometimes starts on fire, or at least smokes  sometimes when I stop, and I want to be near someone with a fire extinguisher. I want to stop when in line of site of a corner worker and not in the middle of nowhere. 

[MichaelPal]

36 minutes ago, Andrew D Johnson said:

My car sometimes starts on fire, or at least smokes  sometimes when I stop, and I want to be near someone with a fire extinguisher. I want to stop when in line of site of a corner worker and not in the middle of nowhere. 

 

Schrodinger's racecar: simultaneously on fire and not on fire. 

[Kentite]

https://www.facebook.com/1280247462/posts/10220367497359105/?d=n

Found a video of the finish. The car was shaking so violently the splitter was bouncing of the ground. It only happened on braking for turn 1. Oh and it was really only the last 6 hours of the race…

[Money Shift Racing]

11 minutes ago, Kentite said:

https://www.facebook.com/1280247462/posts/10220367497359105/?d=n

Found a video of the finish. The car was shaking so violently the splitter was bouncing of the ground. It only happened on braking for turn 1. Oh and it was really only the last 6 hours of the race…

"only"

 

[wvumtnbkr]

17 minutes ago, Kentite said:

https://www.facebook.com/1280247462/posts/10220367497359105/?d=n

Found a video of the finish. The car was shaking so violently the splitter was bouncing of the ground. It only happened on braking for turn 1. Oh and it was really only the last 6 hours of the race…

We have had this issue before...

 

It WAS our splitter hitting the ground creating the shaking.  T hats a good bit of mass moving up and down.

 

To say it another way, when we have had our splitter touch the ground, it vibrated the entire car so bad it felt like the wheels were falling off.

 

Being 1 corner specific leads me to think it IS something like this.  Turn 1 isn't very sharp so I would think like the last turn would cause more drivetrain issue.

[BollingerChump]

13 hours ago, enginerd said:

This reminds me of Chicago highway driving where there are tons of slowdowns and abrupt stops. Whenever I see a slowdown ahead I spend as much of my focus on the rear view mirror as I do on the car ahead of me. I start slowing faster than I need to and gauge the closing rate from behind, if he’s gaining too quickly I lift off the brake to give him more time to slow. You can see in the video the car coming from behind and sometimes have to watch out for that. 

^^This!! Defensive driving 101