MARCRUTHERFORD Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 Bought a 79 TR7 "Wedge" race car. Rear spoiler option in racer opinion. Do we go with a basic rear spoiler or a crazy big "wing". Really short wheelbase...68" I think Wheel base Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Money Shift Racing Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 If you are paying the points for aero then go with the most effective part that offers as much adjustment as possible. So in this case go with the big wang. Plus it looks cooler. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyKid Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 You aero need balance. Get as much downforce in the front first, then balance with the wing in the back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbogrill Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 34 minutes ago, LuckyKid said: You aero need balance. Get as much downforce in the front first, then balance with the wing in the back. Why is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyKid Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 6 hours ago, turbogrill said: Why is that? If he adds the big wing with nothing up front the car is going to understeer alot and it'll change at speed. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Bill Strong Posted October 10, 2021 Administrators Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 please don't take this the wrong way. but if you have to ask this question, don't worry about a wing or spoiler. just get the car on the track and learn. there are plenty of TR7/TR8 peeps that have raced with is that did not use any aero. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginerd Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 12 hours ago, turbogrill said: Why is that? It’s much easier to add downforce to the rear than the front. So you max out the front and then put in the right amount on the rear to achieve balance. If you start with a huge rear wing you may never get enough front downforce. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gundy Posted October 11, 2021 Report Share Posted October 11, 2021 On 10/9/2021 at 10:52 PM, LuckyKid said: You aero need balance. Get as much downforce in the front first, then balance with the wing in the back. Another place on this form makes this statement. "It is generally recommended to decide on the rear aero first, and then design the front to balance the car back out." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyKid Posted October 11, 2021 Report Share Posted October 11, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, gundy said: Another place on this form makes this statement. "It is generally recommended to decide on the rear aero first, and then design the front to balance the car back out." I don't agree with this statement especially within the champcar ruleset. You can do a lot more in the rear to generate downforce alot easier vs. the front, especially with newer wing placement rules. Although the data in the verus article is helpful, this statement would not be the best approach in CCES. Edited October 11, 2021 by LuckyKid 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mender Posted October 11, 2021 Report Share Posted October 11, 2021 (edited) I kind of did things backwards, bought my rear wing at a swap meet then did the front aero: It's pretty easy to adjust the rear wing AOA to balance the splitter. I think I can develop the front aero a fair bit more before I run out of wing. Edited October 11, 2021 by mender 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbogrill Posted October 12, 2021 Report Share Posted October 12, 2021 21 hours ago, mender said: I kind of did things backwards, bought my rear wing at a swap meet then did the front aero: It's pretty easy to adjust the rear wing AOA to balance the splitter. I think I can develop the front aero a fair bit more before I run out of wing. That looks very nice. Did that airdam/spoiler make a big differance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mender Posted October 12, 2021 Report Share Posted October 12, 2021 (edited) Hard to say, we haven't done back to back testing yet. Also, I've been making changes almost every time out: suspension, set-up, aero, engine, gearing, tires. That being said, I think that the aero helps with both grip and stability, and the drivers at this race didn't want me to make any adjustments because they loved how the car was working! As a conservative guess I'd say the aero is probably worth 1.5-2.0 seconds at the faster tracks, and my slowest driver is now pretty close to my fast drivers. Driver confidence seems higher with the aero. Headlights are now closed in and the hood no longer flops around at the front (no duct tape!). The first splitter is fairly conservative/small. Next step is a longer, wider splitter with end fences and maybe some canards. And of course some hood vents. Followed by more wing angle; tempted to motorize the wing adjustment so I can do lap to lap comparisons. Edited October 12, 2021 by mender 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbogrill Posted October 12, 2021 Report Share Posted October 12, 2021 What did you do to the hood? Just tighten it more? What happens if you completely gut the hood, does it get too flimsy? The NC Miata hood is 15lbs, let say you can get it down to 4lbs with removing all the braces but it would be very thin. A problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mender Posted October 12, 2021 Report Share Posted October 12, 2021 (edited) New hood but left structure around the perimeter this time. I took out too much and got this: Extra drag, loss of potential front downforce and the metal around the hood pins was cracking from the flex. I'm glad someone was taking pictures! Before I replaced the hood, I should have put the car on the scales, noted the corner weights then pulled up on the hood enough to duplicate the amount of flex seen in this picture and checked the weights again. Pretty sure it would have been noticable... Edited October 12, 2021 by mender 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd K Posted October 13, 2021 Report Share Posted October 13, 2021 On 10/12/2021 at 2:13 PM, mender said: Hard to say, we haven't done back to back testing yet. Also, I've been making changes almost every time out: suspension, set-up, aero, engine, gearing, tires. That being said, I think that the aero helps with both grip and stability, and the drivers at this race didn't want me to make any adjustments because they loved how the car was working! As a conservative guess I'd say the aero is probably worth 1.5-2.0 seconds at the faster tracks, and my slowest driver is now pretty close to my fast drivers. Driver confidence seems higher with the aero. Headlights are now closed in and the hood no longer flops around at the front (no duct tape!). The first splitter is fairly conservative/small. Next step is a longer, wider splitter with end fences and maybe some canards. And of course some hood vents. Followed by more wing angle; tempted to motorize the wing adjustment so I can do lap to lap comparisons. Where did you get that center vent? We have an Integra and looking for something similar or the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mender Posted October 13, 2021 Report Share Posted October 13, 2021 (edited) Hood Scoop Cover Black Automotive Modification Replacement Refurbishment Body Decorative Air Vents Hood Scoops Universal for Most Trucks Car(Bright black) On Amazon. Edited October 19, 2021 by mender 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mender Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 Not just decorative: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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