FrumRoll Posted October 11, 2021 Report Share Posted October 11, 2021 How are points typically being applied to the common Fox Mustang 5 lug conversion / brake upgrade? Generally the spindle, the hub, and the ball joint need to be replaced. SN95 spindles are generally sold with the hub, SN95 control arms are generally sold with the ball joint. Per this KB https://champcar.org/tech/knowledgebase.php?article=109, I assume the ball joints are a maximum of 5 points per corner and not 10?Fox Control Arm and SN95 Ball Joint (0 or 5 points per corner)SN95 Control Arm and Ball Joint (10 or 15 points per corner)SN95 Spindle and Hub (10 or 12.5 points per corner) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodger Coan-Burningham Posted October 12, 2021 Report Share Posted October 12, 2021 We could give you an opinion but just hit up @Ray Franck to make sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron_e Posted October 12, 2021 Report Share Posted October 12, 2021 19 hours ago, FrumRoll said: How are points typically being applied to the common Fox Mustang 5 lug conversion / brake upgrade? Generally the spindle, the hub, and the ball joint need to be replaced. SN95 spindles are generally sold with the hub, SN95 control arms are generally sold with the ball joint. Per this KB https://champcar.org/tech/knowledgebase.php?article=109, I assume the ball joints are a maximum of 5 points per corner and not 10?Fox Control Arm and SN95 Ball Joint (0 or 5 points per corner)SN95 Control Arm and Ball Joint (10 or 15 points per corner)SN95 Spindle and Hub (10 or 12.5 points per corner) The SN95 ball joint is just shorter than the Fox. Option 1 is to put washers on the Fox ball joint, for most the washers would probably be free but because of the Mustang tax you will likely have to claim material. Option 2 is to install the SN95 ball joint and claim the points as a non-OE suspension piece. Option 3 is to "claim" that you cut a section out of the Fox ball joint then rewelded it, in reality this would be incredibly stupid to do but you would end up with a part that looks and measures exactly like an SN95 ball joint, and hence you do not claim points for the SN95 ball joint but are encouraged to lie. Same dealio for swapping to 5 lug rear axles. "Claim" that you welded shut the four lug holes and redrilled the five holes. If you get new axles don't forget to remove the Strange Axles label, or if you are junkyard shopping go with the Ranger/Aerostar option. The SN95 control arms are 3/4" longer so you will have to move the A arm mount points or end up with front wheels sticking way out. If moving the mount points then change the anti-dive as well as per the Mathis book. Even with moving the mount points in you will also have to lengthen the tie rod adjusters otherwise you may only have a couple of threads engaged, claim materials. If you are swapping out the K be sure to go with a road race unit like Maximum or Griggs, the light weight drag version will not survive cornering. It is incredibly difficult to distinguish the Fox A arms from the SN95's as there are no straight reference points to measure, pretty much the only way to tell is to remove from the car and lay it over a known version. If you really want to use and want to claim the SN95's then "claim" that you cut and lengthened the Fox ones then only claim material points. The spindle and hub situation is another story. As you are aware the original hub is old style integral to the rotor so swapping to SN95 spindles means you can no longer use the Fox rotors/hubs. Over the years, depending on who you had tech with, and how aggressive they were with the Mustang tax the SN95 hubs on SN95 spindles were sometimes given points and other years not. No idea where it is today. For sure claim the spindle but in your question to the tech desk be sure to specify that the OE SN95 hub is needed to make it "work" with the SN95 spindle as it is not compatible with the original Fox hubs therefore should be included as one suspension piece per corner. The SN95 hub is required for the SN95 spindle as one suspension piece. The Mustang tax is alive and well so I suspect you will get charged for both the spindle and hub this year. The GT has not won for years but it's base VPI was increased last year, just because. Claim your car as a 93 Cobra so you can run GT40/GT40P heads, roller rockers, Cobra intake for I think only a 50 point increase between the cars. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorman Posted October 12, 2021 Report Share Posted October 12, 2021 3 hours ago, Ron_e said: The Mustang tax is alive and well so I suspect you will get charged for both the spindle and hub this year. The GT has not won for years but it's base VPI was increased last year, just because. Claim your car as a 93 Cobra so you can run GT40/GT40P heads, roller rockers, Cobra intake for I think only a 50 point increase between the cars. At this point anybody who brings a Mustang or a Camaro into the series is wasting their time. I would advise anybody racing these cars to go elsewhere. The new and thinly disguised fuel rule for 2022 that thoroughly screws all of the fuel-challenged cars and has no impact on the big tank cars is only one reason. As you pointed out, VPI on all of the Mustangs was increased for 2021. I'm guessing the series will adopt some sort of tire rule that, quite amazingly, limits tire size to...say...no wider than what the competitive E30s run in an effort to "reel in the costs of racing". 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiredBirds Posted October 14, 2021 Report Share Posted October 14, 2021 I would not think so. I mean if spacers/adaptors are free now.... On 10/12/2021 at 5:16 PM, Snorman said: At this point anybody who brings a Mustang or a Camaro into the series is wasting their time. I would advise anybody racing these cars to go elsewhere. The new and thinly disguised fuel rule for 2022 that thoroughly screws all of the fuel-challenged cars and has no impact on the big tank cars is only one reason. As you pointed out, VPI on all of the Mustangs was increased for 2021. I'm guessing the series will adopt some sort of tire rule that, quite amazingly, limits tire size to...say...no wider than what the competitive E30s run in an effort to "reel in the costs of racing". Does a Friebird count? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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