E36 M3 VPI question

[obscene]

Apologies if this has been asked before, I didn't have any luck with the search function.

 

As one does in December, I'm currently shopping around at possible cars to build for Champcar. One of the options locally is a 1999 BMW M3 that doesn't run. I understand that a normal M3 is automatically EC. If I were to replace the S52 engine with an M52, would the car be 450 or 485pts like a 325is or 328is? Or because the shell is still M3 am I stuck in EC regardless?

 

Thanks!

Ben

[enginerd]

17 minutes ago, obscene said:

Apologies if this has been asked before, I didn't have any luck with the search function.

 

As one does in December, I'm currently shopping around at possible cars to build for Champcar. One of the options locally is a 1999 BMW M3 that doesn't run. I understand that a normal M3 is automatically EC. If I were to replace the S52 engine with an M52, would the car be 450 or 485pts like a 325is or 328is? Or because the shell is still M3 am I stuck in EC regardless?

 

Thanks!

Ben

I don't know the particular differences between 325/328 and M3, however, If you can create a 325/328 from an m3 shell, and all the parts match what a 325/328 is supposed to have, you can absolutely use it and call it a 325/328. Maybe you have to replace control arms, engine (as you said), maybe some other stuff. Brakes are basically open, so you can use the m3 brakes or replace with better. Dampers and springs are sorta open, maybe you can just use the m3 stuff or replace with better.

 

If the body shape / dimensions / etc. are different from m3 to 325/328, you can't, but I don't know the platform to know if that is the case.

Edited December 13, 2021 by enginerd

[BMW_CEMETERY]

technically, you could do a platform swap. To get it to a 325i you would need to do the following, plus more. some of this you can get away with not swapping, but i wont push you in that direction. 

 

Engine

Transmission (328 and M3 use a ZF, 325 is a getrag)

A arms

trailing arms 

Front subframe (this is really just a bit thicker under the engine mounts)

Rear knuckles/hubs

Front knuckles/hubs

axles 

diff (im not quite up to speed on the "winter package" argument that people use to get LSDs)

sway bars (they might be the same, but I know front mounting is different)

front top hats

and technically the front m3 bumper will get you points for a splitter. 

 

 

[BMW_CEMETERY]

2 minutes ago, enginerd said:

If the body shape / dimensions / etc. are different from m3 to 325/328, you can't, but I don't know the platform to know if that is the case.

Slightly, but i think this would all fall within the 60% rule?

Edited December 13, 2021 by BMW_CEMETERY

[Rodger Coan-Burningham]

Drive shaft

Brake calipers

 

Top of my head things that are different not on your list. Basically anything with the M stamped in it won't fly.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Rodger Coan-Burningham

[BMW_CEMETERY]

3 minutes ago, Rodger Coan-Burningham said:

Basically anything with the M stamped in it won't fly.

so you are saying he should buy an angle grinder?

[enginerd]

11 minutes ago, BMW_CEMETERY said:

Slightly, but i think this would all fall within the 60% rule?

No, the 60% rule is in place so you don't cut off more than 40% of the car in a desperate weight reduction scheme. It does not mean that 60% of your car needs to be accurate to the claimed vehicle and 40% can be from a different vehicle. That 40% would be 'non-oe parts', and 'there is no such thing as a free part'.

[BMW_CEMETERY]

Just now, enginerd said:

No, the 60% rule is in place so you don't cut off more than 40% of the car in a desperate weight reduction scheme. It does not mean that 60% of your car needs to be accurate to the claimed vehicle and 40% can be from a different vehicle. That 40% would be 'non-oe parts', and 'there is no such thing as a free part'.

makes sense. front bumper, rear bumper are different. Fenders are ever so slightly different. 

[obscene]

Excellent guidance. Thank you, everyone, for the quick answer!

[enginerd]

I think the gist here is that even if it were legal, it would take a huge amount of work to turn an m3 into a ChampCar 325/328, and you should just search for one of those to begin with.

[Ray Franck]

Chassis materials, suspension components, hubs, body parts, rear diff, spindles & more I'm told.

[Rodger Coan-Burningham]

The rules used to say "no M BMW cars" or something like that but no longer listed that way. I guess it is implied since they aren't on the VPI list and accomplishes the same thing.

[TiredBirds]

On 12/13/2021 at 12:21 PM, obscene said:

Apologies if this has been asked before, I didn't have any luck with the search function.

 

As one does in December, I'm currently shopping around at possible cars to build for Champcar. One of the options locally is a 1999 BMW M3 that doesn't run. I understand that a normal M3 is automatically EC. If I were to replace the S52 engine with an M52, would the car be 450 or 485pts like a 325is or 328is? Or because the shell is still M3 am I stuck in EC regardless?

 

Thanks!

Ben

There are a lot of suspension upgrades on an M series. How rough is the car? M series cars seem to bring stupid money.  

[obscene]

20 hours ago, TiredBirds said:

There are a lot of suspension upgrades on an M series. How rough is the car? M series cars seem to bring stupid money.  

 

It looks fairly rough, but not a bad starting point for a race car. I'm going to pass, but here's the link in case you've got a use for it: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/650187196353159

[jakks]

$6500… sheesh

[TiredBirds]

On 12/16/2021 at 8:54 AM, obscene said:

 

It looks fairly rough, but not a bad starting point for a race car. I'm going to pass, but here's the link in case you've got a use for it: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/650187196353159

I have a 99 540i Sport 6 speed I drive everyday. It has M stuff all over. It has 233k on it. Fun car. I'd never pay that kind of cash for a M3 in that kind of shape.