Technical Advisory Committee Chris Huggins Posted January 2, 2022 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 Here are the versions of the 2022 vpi lists with the changes highlighted. I expected the official copies to look like this, but somehow the change highlights got removed before they were published. VPI Table 2021 Early updated 2022 January_CH.pdf VPI Table 2021 Late updated 2022 January_CH.pdf 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gundy Posted January 3, 2022 Report Share Posted January 3, 2022 5 hours ago, Chris Huggins said: Here are the versions of the 2022 vpi lists with the changes highlighted. I expected the official copies to look like this, but somehow the change highlights got removed before they were published. VPI Table 2021 Early updated 2022 January_CH.pdf 174 kB · 18 downloads VPI Table 2021 Late updated 2022 January_CH.pdf 133.95 kB · 14 downloads all these changes and a Pontiac Solstice is still 40 pts less than a Saturn Sky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Andrew D Johnson Posted January 3, 2022 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted January 3, 2022 8 hours ago, gundy said: all these changes and a Pontiac Solstice is still 40 pts less than a Saturn Sky If there is a problem with the solstice/sky can you please write a tech desk ticket explaining the issue? The TAC can then review the issue and make a recommendation to the BOD. If you see any other issue, please point them out as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mender Posted January 3, 2022 Report Share Posted January 3, 2022 Fear the 911. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gundy Posted January 3, 2022 Report Share Posted January 3, 2022 4 hours ago, Andrew D Johnson said: If there is a problem with the solstice/sky can you please write a tech desk ticket explaining the issue? The TAC can then review the issue and make a recommendation to the BOD. If you see any other issue, please point them out as well. did that nothing happened 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Andrew D Johnson Posted January 3, 2022 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted January 3, 2022 1 hour ago, gundy said: did that nothing happened Thanks for pointing this out, and submitting the ticket to begin with. I'll make sure this gets looked into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Chris Huggins Posted January 3, 2022 Author Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted January 3, 2022 Correct, Grundy's ticket is in the queue for 2022 discussion and 2023 implementation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mender Posted January 8, 2022 Report Share Posted January 8, 2022 So no further changes to VPI this year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig71188 Posted January 9, 2022 Report Share Posted January 9, 2022 On 1/3/2022 at 6:09 PM, Chris Huggins said: Correct, Grundy's ticket is in the queue for 2022 discussion and 2023 implementation. WOW! This is starting to look/sound just like SCCA! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Chris Huggins Posted January 10, 2022 Author Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted January 10, 2022 13 hours ago, craig71188 said: WOW! This is starting to look/sound just like SCCA! Call me when someone actually shows up with one of these cars... Champcar has a history of being generally logical and reasonable in situations like this. On the other hand, if no one is racing these things, its low priority and we will get to it for next year. If that upsets you, the application list for TAC volunteers is open so I will look for your email. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyKid Posted January 10, 2022 Report Share Posted January 10, 2022 10 hours ago, Chris Huggins said: Call me when someone actually shows up with one of these cars... Champcar has a history of being generally logical and reasonable in situations like this. Why would someone build the car when the rules are unfair and may be changed at the track? What is weird to me is that CCES makes immediate decisions on so many things, except simple things like this clerical error. Bureaucracy is upheld for the sake of stability, but then thrown out at will. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mender Posted January 10, 2022 Report Share Posted January 10, 2022 It took years to get the "1989" Fiero off the VPI list, and still waiting for the swap calculator to be revised to show the '84-85 Fiero using the "weight" of the heaviest model. Are teams still running Fieros? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Chris Huggins Posted January 10, 2022 Author Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted January 10, 2022 2 hours ago, LuckyKid said: Why would someone build the car when the rules are unfair and may be changed at the track? What is weird to me is that CCES makes immediate decisions on so many things, except simple things like this clerical error. Bureaucracy is upheld for the sake of stability, but then thrown out at will. Is it a clerical error? I personally don't know that, and confirming that requires time and effort. Wouldn't you rather some caution and due diligence be performed prior to making changes? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Infiniti Posted January 10, 2022 Report Share Posted January 10, 2022 1 hour ago, mender said: Are teams still running Fieros? Yes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyKid Posted January 10, 2022 Report Share Posted January 10, 2022 9 minutes ago, Chris Huggins said: Is it a clerical error? I personally don't know that, and confirming that requires time and effort. Wouldn't you rather some caution and due diligence be performed prior to making changes? The argument I am trying to make is that both processes used now are flawed. The due diligence of the board has resulted in outcomes that have slingshot back in ways that circumvent the structured process. Mean while you have a number of simple issues that should be easy to resolve, so much so that they created a position that they put you in to help clean up. I know I am fed up with submitting petitions a year in advance just to be dismissed meanwhile much larger changes can just pop-up without following this sacred process. Then when actual change is needed for things that fundamentally impact the series we are all just told to submit our petitions. I feel sometimes that its like a suggestion sign attached to a garbage can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Chris Huggins Posted January 10, 2022 Author Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted January 10, 2022 43 minutes ago, LuckyKid said: The argument I am trying to make is that both processes used now are flawed. The due diligence of the board has resulted in outcomes that have slingshot back in ways that circumvent the structured process. Mean while you have a number of simple issues that should be easy to resolve, so much so that they created a position that they put you in to help clean up. I know I am fed up with submitting petitions a year in advance just to be dismissed meanwhile much larger changes can just pop-up without following this sacred process. Then when actual change is needed for things that fundamentally impact the series we are all just told to submit our petitions. I feel sometimes that its like a suggestion sign attached to a garbage can. In all seriousness, I am doing the best I know how to do. For better or for worse, champcar is now run by a committee, and committee's move slowly. Transparency and rules stability have been a poster message for awhile, and those are noble goals, but they also have a downside in that stable rules are sometimes "stable in the bad" You can be assured that zero petitions were file-13'ed. Each was discussed and voted upon. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Bill Strong Posted January 28, 2022 Administrators Report Share Posted January 28, 2022 Can I make a suggestion that names be removed from the petition submissions that the BOD gets to review, taking away any chance of the board making decisions based on who submitted the petition? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginerd Posted January 28, 2022 Report Share Posted January 28, 2022 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Bill Strong said: Can I make a suggestion that names be removed from the petition submissions that the BOD gets to review, taking away any chance of the board making decisions based on who submitted the petition? I find your lack of faith (in the board's impartiality) disturbing. Also, 'who proposes what' is important information. For example, I knew not to vote for [certain persons] in the BoD election based on what [certain persons] have been petitioning. Edited January 28, 2022 by enginerd 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Bill Strong Posted January 28, 2022 Administrators Report Share Posted January 28, 2022 11 minutes ago, enginerd said: I find your lack of faith (in the board's impartiality) disturbing. Also, 'who proposes what' is important information. For example, I knew not to vote for [certain persons] in the BoD election based on what [certain persons] have been petitioning. Good points. I was just thinking out loud. It's not a lack of faith, it's just trying to reduce people's natural tendency to make decisions based on who the requestor is. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mender Posted January 28, 2022 Report Share Posted January 28, 2022 26 minutes ago, Bill Strong said: Good points. I was just thinking out loud. It's not a lack of faith, it's just trying to reduce people's natural tendency to make decisions based on who the requestor is. I was thinking that automatically eliminating the petitions submitted by any BoD members would prevent the usual politician's motive for getting elected but that wouldn't prevent someone from submitting their petitions by proxy. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginerd Posted January 28, 2022 Report Share Posted January 28, 2022 53 minutes ago, Bill Strong said: people's natural tendency to make decisions based on who the requestor is ...and every day I get more data points showing that I'm not "people". Beep boop beep boop. Whirr click. boop boop 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted April 21, 2022 Report Share Posted April 21, 2022 On 1/28/2022 at 6:41 AM, Bill Strong said: Good points. I was just thinking out loud. It's not a lack of faith, it's just trying to reduce people's natural tendency to make decisions based on who the requestor is. I mean your not wrong. But I would like to point out I vote both ways on your petitions, same with Chris's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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