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11 hours ago, jakks said:

Dirt cheap is not it, but Walter Motorsports rebuilds them.
https://walter-motorsports.com/

From what I’m seeing, I would call any rebuild for less than $1500 “dirt cheap”.

eBay has several used transmissions for ~$900-$1000. Fresh rebuilds are over $3000.

We might be forced into an e46 ZF automatic swap just to save money (I don’t actually know what those cost)!!

Edited by enginerd
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11 hours ago, jakks said:

Dirt cheap is not it, but Walter Motorsports rebuilds them.
https://walter-motorsports.com/

 

 

21 minutes ago, enginerd said:

From what I’m seeing, I would call any rebuild for less than $1500 “dirt cheap”.

eBay has several used transmissions for ~$900-$1000. Fresh rebuilds are over $3000.

We might be forced into an e46 ZF automatic swap just to save money (I don’t actually know what those cost)!!


Double check, but last I looked he was not taking rebuild orders. $1800 is what I was quoted. Condor is $2600-$600 core. I’ve entertained the ZF auto idea. it would be easier to just take the e36/46 G250/ZF310 5sp manual and do a rear axle ratio adjustment (but I know this is not an option with the current rules rules , blah blah blah, perf gain my butt).

 

those G260s are fragile and are getting hard to find.  You could always learn how to rebuild and make tools as well. 

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34 minutes ago, MichaelPal said:

 

 


Double check, but last I looked he was not taking rebuild orders. $1800 is what I was quoted. Condor is $2600-$600 core. I’ve entertained the ZF auto idea. it would be easier to just take the e36/46 G250/ZF310 5sp manual and do a rear axle ratio adjustment (but I know this is not an option with the current rules rules , blah blah blah, perf gain my butt).

 

those G260s are fragile and are getting hard to find.  You could always learn how to rebuild and make tools as well. 

Preach it. We get to remove our ZF now that it's back to 25pts so that we can throw more money at a Getrag that has the same ratios. E36 btw.

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7 minutes ago, B-Rad said:

Preach it. We get to remove our ZF now that it's back to 25pts so that we can throw more money at a Getrag that has the same ratios. E36 btw.

So even though the ZF box came on e36 chassis you cannot use it? 

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22 minutes ago, MichaelPal said:

So even though the ZF box came on e36 chassis you cannot use it? 

Same situation as the x-brace you pointed out a few months ago...

Edited by Grufton
time flies...
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1 hour ago, Grufton said:

Same situation as the x-brace you pointed out a few months ago...

True...let them both in! 
x-brace = increased chassis rigidity

ZF trans = more durable. Less down time for teams = more seat time! 
 

sorry...back in topic...g260. But like 5 used ones and build 2 good ones! 

Edited by MichaelPal
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On 4/12/2022 at 9:28 AM, MichaelPal said:

 it would be easier to just take the e36/46 G250/ZF310 5sp manual and do a rear axle ratio adjustment 

What rear axle ratio would you need for the swap?  Would you need the new ratio for the automatic as well?

On 4/11/2022 at 7:52 PM, enginerd said:

Looking for a working Getrag 260.

I have a “spare” 260 that I have used before. Could use seals and the like. Could part with it. 

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30 minutes ago, TimS said:

What rear axle ratio would you need for the swap?  Would you need the new ratio for the automatic as well?

 

 

The G250 / ZF310 boxes have a direct dive 5th gear (1:1). Using the 3.73 and 4.10 range as a reference, the equivalent ratio range is 2.93 => 3.25 (these are ratios that BMW made in a 188 ring gear, else you need get super custom).

 

Note: using those transmissions + ratio swap would incur points according to current rules.

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So 1:1 5th gear. I could change the rim and tire size to help solve the gearing issue. We the 3.73 I hardly use 5th. Daytona I needed it but just about everywhere else I have been it was 3rd and 4th. 3.73 with a slightly larger tire would probably be okay?  What about the 6spd trans?  

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1 minute ago, TimS said:

So 1:1 5th gear. I could change the rim and tire size to help solve the gearing issue. We the 3.73 I hardly use 5th. Daytona I needed it but just about everywhere else I have been it was 3rd and 4th. 3.73 with a slightly larger tire would probably be okay?  What about the 6spd trans?  

You’d have to do the math, but I don’t think a tire rev/mile change will get you as far as you need. 
 

ZF6-37 has an overdrive 6th gear. 0.85 (G260 is 0.81)

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1 hour ago, TimS said:

What rear axle ratio would you need for the swap?  Would you need the new ratio for the automatic as well?

I have a “spare” 260 that I have used before. Could use seals and the like. Could part with it. 

We're probably going to buy a couple on ebay and call it an 'investment' as they can only get more scarce from here, right? The switch to automatic is not something we are seriously considering.

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The automatic “sounds” like a great deal. No shifting/misshifting, save/gain some points, etc. but the second or third module and wiring to make it work sounds like a big project. Trans costs about the same. Let me know when you figure out how to rebuild the sucker. 

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1 hour ago, MichaelPal said:

You’d have to do the math, but I don’t think a tire rev/mile change will get you as far as you need. 

 

Looks like 28.5” diameter wheel and tire combo. To match E30 top speed with 3.73 R&P, 26” for same top speed as 4.11 R&P.    Sounds big

Edited by TimS
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/12/2022 at 8:02 AM, enginerd said:

From what I’m seeing, I would call any rebuild for less than $1500 “dirt cheap”.

eBay has several used transmissions for ~$900-$1000. Fresh rebuilds are over $3000.

We might be forced into an e46 ZF automatic swap just to save money (I don’t actually know what those cost)!!

Condor does not actually rebuild them in-house, they are sent to a shop in GA(most likely Walters Motorsports).  Walters is not taking outside rebuilds last time I spoke with them. 

We were able to take used 4 cores we had, and make 2 good boxes. The Synchros are usually the fail point, followed by the shift forks once the Synchros fail and are forced into shifts.  The good news is all 6 Synchros are the same/interchangeable. So Reverse and 1, 2, usually have minimal wear and can be re-used to combine boxes to a good working unit.

We had a local well known shop, Midwest Transmission Center (Hader, MN) rebuild us some. They are a huge shop specializing in manual transmissions, quick turn around, cleaned them up nicely too. Cost was ~$1000 total (500/ea) to turn 4 boxes into 2.  Completely disassembled, inspected, combined, reassembled, all new seals, etc.

Scott was great guy to deal with and super helpful/knowledgeable and had experience with these g260 in the past.

It was getting to be insanity installing unknown used $300-500 boxes in an hoping for the best.  Had try something different. 

 

Message me if you want more details.

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Edited by Shane G.
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6 hours ago, Shane G. said:

Condor does not actually rebuild them in-house, they are sent to a shop in GA(most likely Walters Motorsports).  Walters is not taking outside rebuilds last time I spoke with them. 

We were able to take used 4 cores we had, and make 2 good boxes. The Synchros are usually the fail point, followed by the shift forks once the Synchros fail and are forced into shifts.  The good news is all 6 Synchros are the same/interchangeable. So Reverse and 1, 2, usually have minimal wear and can be re-used to combine boxes to a good working unit.

We had a local well known shop, Midwest Transmission Center (Hader, MN) rebuild us some. They are a huge shop specializing in manual transmissions, quick turn around, cleaned them up nicely too. Cost was ~$1000 total (500/ea) to turn 4 boxes into 2.  Completely disassembled, inspected, combined, reassembled, all new seals, etc.

Scott was great guy to deal with and super helpful/knowledgeable and had experience with these g260 in the past.

It was getting to be insanity installing unknown used $300-500 boxes in an hoping for the best.  Had try something different. 

 

Message me if you want more details.

 

 

Awesome info, thanks for sharing!

 

Can confirm that Walter was/is doing the rebuilds for Condor.

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7 hours ago, Shane G. said:

Condor does not actually rebuild them in-house, they are sent to a shop in GA(most likely Walters Motorsports).  Walters is not taking outside rebuilds last time I spoke with them. 

We were able to take used 4 cores we had, and make 2 good boxes. The Synchros are usually the fail point, followed by the shift forks once the Synchros fail and are forced into shifts.  The good news is all 6 Synchros are the same/interchangeable. So Reverse and 1, 2, usually have minimal wear and can be re-used to combine boxes to a good working unit.

We had a local well known shop, Midwest Transmission Center (Hader, MN) rebuild us some. They are a huge shop specializing in manual transmissions, quick turn around, cleaned them up nicely too. Cost was ~$1000 total (500/ea) to turn 4 boxes into 2.  Completely disassembled, inspected, combined, reassembled, all new seals, etc.

Scott was great guy to deal with and super helpful/knowledgeable and had experience with these g260 in the past.

It was getting to be insanity installing unknown used $300-500 boxes in an hoping for the best.  Had try something different. 

 

Message me if you want more details.

20220414_131305.jpg

20220414_100618.jpg

20220414_131320.jpg

20220414_132710.jpg

That's great to know, thanks!!

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 4/12/2022 at 8:02 AM, enginerd said:

From what I’m seeing, I would call any rebuild for less than $1500 “dirt cheap”.

eBay has several used transmissions for ~$900-$1000. Fresh rebuilds are over $3000.

We might be forced into an e46 ZF automatic swap just to save money (I don’t actually know what those cost)!!

I looked at a swap when we blew up the tranny on the dyno. it was going to be more than rebuilding.

 

I used Metric Mechanic. He's in Missouri so close to you. we had to buy a "new" front housing since we blew a giant hole in it....(effing frightening)...

 

It wasnt cheap, but he does some things to harden it. Worth a discussion for you I'd imagine. I did talk to him about the swap as well...

 

I think all in with the new front housing was 5k. (that included a dual plate racing clutch and pressure plate more appropriate to what the motor is putting out...)...

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2 hours ago, atxe30 said:

I looked at a swap when we blew up the tranny on the dyno. it was going to be more than rebuilding.

 

I used Metric Mechanic. He's in Missouri so close to you. we had to buy a "new" front housing since we blew a giant hole in it....(effing frightening)...

 

It wasnt cheap, but he does some things to harden it. Worth a discussion for you I'd imagine. I did talk to him about the swap as well...

 

I think all in with the new front housing was 5k. (that included a dual plate racing clutch and pressure plate more appropriate to what the motor is putting out...)...

From what I hear, Metric Mechanic is the place to go if you want a quality product. I've chatted with Jim several times over the years about diffs, rockers, etc. He's a wealth of knowledge. All his stuff is so expensive, but I would have complete confidence in his products if I ever pulled the trigger on buying. Actually, the only thing I did buy from him was rocker arms for the m20. He said he bought a few dozen sets of new m20 rockers, inspected them all and measured for slight variations in thickness. I bought a set of rockers (for a substantial markup) that he set aside as "excellent", and ran those in the engine we rebuilt between 2017/2018 seasons. That engine didn't miss a beat and got us top 5 in 9 straight races while revving over 6500 rpm.

 

I might pitch buying one of his transmissions to the team in the offseason :)

 

Oh, and I discovered what was likely killing our transmissions.... 1) loose / failing pilot bearing 2) problem with the transmission adapter plate causing a slight non-perpendicularity between trans and flywheel. The second issue may have caused the first.

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2 hours ago, enginerd said:

Oh, and I discovered what was likely killing our transmissions.... 1) loose / failing pilot bearing 2) problem with the transmission adapter plate causing a slight non-perpendicularity between trans and flywheel. The second issue may have caused the first.

Yup. Always a good idea to dial the input shaft to the engine.

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18 hours ago, enginerd said:

From what I hear, Metric Mechanic is the place to go if you want a quality product. I've chatted with Jim several times over the years about diffs, rockers, etc. He's a wealth of knowledge. All his stuff is so expensive, but I would have complete confidence in his products if I ever pulled the trigger on buying. Actually, the only thing I did buy from him was rocker arms for the m20. He said he bought a few dozen sets of new m20 rockers, inspected them all and measured for slight variations in thickness. I bought a set of rockers (for a substantial markup) that he set aside as "excellent", and ran those in the engine we rebuilt between 2017/2018 seasons. That engine didn't miss a beat and got us top 5 in 9 straight races while revving over 6500 rpm.

 

I might pitch buying one of his transmissions to the team in the offseason :)

 

Oh, and I discovered what was likely killing our transmissions.... 1) loose / failing pilot bearing 2) problem with the transmission adapter plate causing a slight non-perpendicularity between trans and flywheel. The second issue may have caused the first.

Fun fact, we had a rocker arm fail in first race at HH. Motor was sent to a shop in LA area for super-stroking.

 

II wasn't involved with that decision, and while the shop out there was reputable and the motor feels awesome. after talking to Jim about tranny i wish he had done the work. The guy is old skool and meticulous....a lost art these days...

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