Opel GT build need help with drivetrain selection and points

[AustinTX]

Hi all!

So I recently acquired (2) two Opel GT chassis with no drivetrains. There was only a shattered transmission offered and no other drivetrain components. Bodies are in OKish shape, not restoration candidates.

 

So I come to yall for opinions on drivetrains I have available to swap in.

These are drivetrains I have available:

93 Miata NA running driving donor, chassis is trashed from rear damage, long nose crank

1.8T Audi 06A block(needs rebuild) w 02M/O2Q(TT AWD 6sp) or 02J(FWD mk4 VW 5sp) transmission

1.8T Audi 058 (needs rebuild) w 02E FWD 5sp

1998 1.8T Audi A4 FWD complete donor car (so all the gauges harnesses etc available)

Ford 2.3 Lima 4 cylinder w Holley (140hp?) with T5

351 w T5, lol I know, too heavy up front and likely wouldnt fit nevermind 300hp points swap would be EC.

I have an 02 TT 5sp FWD complete and running that could be used as a donor, but again 178hp would result in EC.

 

I know, a FWD Opel GT is blasphemy, but hey, we are going for fun and cheap.

 

Edited April 28, 2022 by AustinTX

[Wink]

Paging @Bill Strong

[QuaTTro]

@CBraden do you have any thoughts?

29 minutes ago, AustinTX said:

 

I have an 02 TT 5sp FWD complete and running that could be used as a donor, but again 178hp would result in EC.

 

 

 

Why not race the TT ?

[Ben 595]

or buy a junky e30...

 

https://www.racingjunk.com/24-hours-of-lemons-cars-for-sale/184334642/bmw-e30-lemons-race-car.html?category_id=4&photos=&location_distance=1000&location_zip=&price_min=&price_max=&seller_type=&condition=&trade=&search=&search_type=&search_exclude=&state=&date=&order=price-low-high&np_offset=49&from=search

 

you might be able to race @ Hallett in a few weeks. 

[turbogrill]

1 hour ago, AustinTX said:

Hi all!

So I recently acquired to Opel GT chassis with no drivetrains. There was only a shattered transmission offered and no other drivetrain components. Bodies are in OKish shape, not restoration candidates.

 

So I come to yall for opinions on drivetrains I have available to swap in.

These are drivetrains I have available:

93 Miata NA running driving donor, chassis is trashed from rear damage, long nose crank

1.8T Audi 06A block(needs rebuild) w 02M/O2Q(TT AWD 6sp) or 02J(FWD mk4 VW 5sp) transmission

1.8T Audi 058 (needs rebuild) w 02E FWD 5sp

1998 1.8T Audi A4 FWD complete donor car (so all the gauges harnesses etc available)

Ford 2.3 Lima 4 cylinder w Holley (140hp?) with T5

351 w T5, lol I know, too heavy up front and likely wouldnt fit nevermind 300hp points swap would be EC.

I have an 02 TT 5sp FWD complete and running that could be used as a donor, but again 178hp would result in EC.

 

I know, a FWD Opel GT is blasphemy, but hey, we are going for fun and cheap.

 

 

Wow! Cool car. Is this the white one that has been to harris hill sometimes in the past?

 

From my excel spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qZShtV0AMW4_TFFYkpKNcv_fP9CYxi4RX0b8t3apGdc/edit?usp=sharing:
 

Added VPI	New VPI	New hp	Point per hp
51.0	126.0	131.0	51.0
53.5	128.5	135.0	10.7
61.8	136.8	140.0	6.2
80.5	155.5	145.0	5.4
115.9	190.9	150.0	5.8
174.9	249.9	155.0	7.0
265.0	340.0	160.0	8.8
393.6	468.6	165.0	11.2
567.9	642.9	170.0	14.2

 

 

The 93 Miata engine is sad, I think 120whp is as good as it gets within reason. 

The Audi engine seems like a good fit, ~150hp at ~200VPI. But turbo, not sure if that is good or bad.

I would stay away from old low hp engines.

How does it look pointwise? Does it have high point suspension?

Option 5:

Get a Miata NB engine @ 150hp with a transmission and the car is now RWD. 

Edited April 22, 2022 by turbogrill

[veris]

Find an NA motor between 150 and 160hp. 

 

Lots of options. I would lean towards a older CRV k24a1/a4.

[turbogrill]

I am curious about FWD conversion? Isn't that a mega pain? Or you think you can retain the stock steering stuff?

[chbright]

1 hour ago, turbogrill said:

 

Wow! Cool car. Is this the white one that has been to harris hill sometimes in the past?

 

From my excel spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qZShtV0AMW4_TFFYkpKNcv_fP9CYxi4RX0b8t3apGdc/edit?usp=sharing:
 

Added VPI	New VPI	New hp	Point per hp
51.0	126.0	131.0	51.0
53.5	128.5	135.0	10.7
61.8	136.8	140.0	6.2
80.5	155.5	145.0	5.4
115.9	190.9	150.0	5.8
174.9	249.9	155.0	7.0
265.0	340.0	160.0	8.8
393.6	468.6	165.0	11.2
567.9	642.9	170.0	14.2

 

 

The 93 Miata engine is sad, I think 120whp is as good as it gets within reason. 

The Audi engine seems like a good fit, ~150hp at ~200VPI. But turbo, not sure if that is good or bad.

I would stay away from old low hp engines.

How does it look pointwise? Does it have high point suspension?

Option 5:

Get a Miata NB engine @ 150hp with a transmission and the car is now RWD. 

 

2.2L gen 2 ecotec, L61 is 145hp/152ftlb from 07-08 malibu. has the head from the  LE5 and gen II block and very different than a gen I L61. throw a trans at it too, something like a solstice perhaps.... 180.5VPI with a trans swap. thats a lot of points left to play with on everything, idk maybe go turbo for +100 and still sub 300 points. now gas, tires and oil, lolz.

 

[Team Infiniti]

Cheap easy and fun? Not going to win, run that Miata stuff!

[turbogrill]

1 hour ago, Team Infiniti said:

Cheap easy and fun? Not going to win, run that Miata stuff!

 

For cheap and easy standalone I would recommend the $300 speedyefi standalone. Cheapest way to get horsepower, happy to share my basic tune. 

 

[AustinTX]

9 hours ago, QuaTTro said:

@CBraden do you have any thoughts?

 

Why not race the TT ?

That chassis has been bent and then restraighten, then hit again. I went to look at it and got it running for the seller and they said its mine for $200. Its geto split welds all over; even with a cage, its going to crumple first time it gets lightly grazed. Soooooo much bondo all four corners...

I do have an 02 TT 6sp as well, but its convertible. was looking for a donor roof to weld onto it, thats how I came across the 02 TT 5sp...

If yall have thoughts on making the 02 TT 6sp convertible into a champcar, Im all ears..

Edited April 23, 2022 by AustinTX

[AustinTX]

7 hours ago, chbright said:

 

2.2L gen 2 ecotec, L61 is 145hp/152ftlb from 07-08 malibu. has the head from the  LE5 and gen II block and very different than a gen I L61. throw a trans at it too, something like a solstice perhaps.... 180.5VPI with a trans swap. thats a lot of points left to play with on everything, idk maybe go turbo for +100 and still sub 300 points. now gas, tires and oil, lolz.

 

I dont have an ecotec available and not sure I want to learn another engine atm. I must say the miata ecotec swaps are insanely capable at Harris Hill. 

I was thinking 1.8T Audi FWD and have enough points to go turbo on that. I think the 1.8T w big turbo has far more room to grow in endurance trim? lol 240 hp fwd Opel GT?... Would just walk away on a wet/rainy race...

Edited April 23, 2022 by AustinTX

[AustinTX]

7 hours ago, turbogrill said:

I am curious about FWD conversion? Isn't that a mega pain? Or you think you can retain the stock steering stuff?

Excellent questions! Was going to consider just welding plates to be able to mount the entire front subframe. Would likely just cut up the subframe to make the engine mount brackets anyway, not sure anyone wants me on track with an original Opel steering rack, they are a little light for being able to survive contact.

[AustinTX]

9 hours ago, turbogrill said:

 

Wow! Cool car. Is this the white one that has been to harris hill sometimes in the past?

 

From my excel spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qZShtV0AMW4_TFFYkpKNcv_fP9CYxi4RX0b8t3apGdc/edit?usp=sharing:
 

Added VPI	New VPI	New hp	Point per hp
51.0	126.0	131.0	51.0
53.5	128.5	135.0	10.7
61.8	136.8	140.0	6.2
80.5	155.5	145.0	5.4
115.9	190.9	150.0	5.8
174.9	249.9	155.0	7.0
265.0	340.0	160.0	8.8
393.6	468.6	165.0	11.2
567.9	642.9	170.0	14.2

 

 

The 93 Miata engine is sad, I think 120whp is as good as it gets within reason. 

The Audi engine seems like a good fit, ~150hp at ~200VPI. But turbo, not sure if that is good or bad.

I would stay away from old low hp engines.

How does it look pointwise? Does it have high point suspension?

Option 5:

Get a Miata NB engine @ 150hp with a transmission and the car is now RWD. 

OMG I LOVE YOU! 

I was doing trial and error on the VPI swap web interface and was like damn I need to make a spreadsheet.

So I am going off stock A4 AEB motor rated horsepower of 148 (or 150) from 1997-2000 Audi A4 FWD.

What I don't understand, is if you use 100 points to upgrade turbo, do you now have to dyno the car to find out what your new swap hp is? Or do you get charged the points on the swap first, and then the 100 points cost for turbo gets you to whatever hp you end up with and you have already paid the 100 points and dont have to dyno at tech inspection? or? 

 

Thanks everyone for all the input.

[AustinTX]

9 hours ago, Ben 595 said:

or buy a junky e30...

 

https://www.racingjunk.com/24-hours-of-lemons-cars-for-sale/184334642/bmw-e30-lemons-race-car.html?category_id=4&photos=&location_distance=1000&location_zip=&price_min=&price_max=&seller_type=&condition=&trade=&search=&search_type=&search_exclude=&state=&date=&order=price-low-high&np_offset=49&from=search

 

you might be able to race @ Hallett in a few weeks. 

Already track one BMW and wrench on it myself. Not feeling another one atm.

I already run a Miata NA in H2R series at Harris Hill every month. Have a 79 Mustang Ghia for H2R series as well for new member intro to racing. Can only race one at a time since the Miata and Mustang series are now combined.

I will likely only race Harris Hill until a car is well sorted. I just flat tow and get tired of storing trailers, having trailer stolen, people run into trailer, etc.

Maybe... maybe.. long term, I might put temp tags on a car and drive it to MSRH, ECR, MSRC, and flat tow it back slow last resort. 

[enginerd]

21 minutes ago, AustinTX said:

OMG I LOVE YOU! 

I was doing trial and error on the VPI swap web interface and was like damn I need to make a spreadsheet.

So I am going off stock A4 AEB motor rated horsepower of 148 (or 150) from 1997-2000 Audi A4 FWD.

What I don't understand, is if you use 100 points to upgrade turbo, do you now have to dyno the car to find out what your new swap hp is? Or do you get charged the points on the swap first, and then the 100 points cost for turbo gets you to whatever hp you end up with and you have already paid the 100 points and dont have to dyno at tech inspection? or? 

 

Thanks everyone for all the input.

Turbo is 100 points no matter how much power you get from it. I think the reason they are so open (and almost non-existent) is that turbos are self limiting with reliability and fuel burn. Crank the boost to 400 hp? Enjoy your broken axles and 1 hr fuel stints if you can keep it cool enough to not blow up first!

[AustinTX]

1 minute ago, enginerd said:

Turbo is 100 points no matter how much power you get from it. I think the reason they are so open (and almost non-existent) is that turbos are self limiting with reliability and fuel burn. Crank the boost to 400 hp? Enjoy your broken axles and 1 hr fuel stints if you can keep it cool enough to not blow up first!

Well if its 100 points, and gets you 50hp, thats only 2 points per hp.. There are junk yard truck turbos that you can put on these motors for 50hp more with just a turbo refresh kit to overhaul the junkyard turbo.. Just having an Opel GT with 150hp would be fine.

[AustinTX]

OK guys. So what other points should I budget?

these points correct?

25 A4 transaxle swap to go with motor

5 A4 hubs

10 A4 springs

25 A4 CV/axles/half shafts (pair)

20 A4 swaybar

? A4 struts non adjustable stock A4 ? 4.7.2? are these 0 or 10 or 25pts each? 25pts is for adjustables?

20 A4 knuckle

40 A4 front arms

? A4 brakes free per 4.7.2 ?

? A4 power steering free per 4.7.2 ?

10 A4 stock front subframe

36 front Opel Steinmetz fender flares,  cause its got to look cool so we can lose in style?

 

So VPI for 150 hp A4 motor swap onto 102hp Opel GT is 75+116 = 191?

 

Starting to sound like alot of work..... hmmm

 

 

[enginerd]

9 hours ago, AustinTX said:

OK guys. So what other points should I budget?

these points correct?

25 A4 transaxle swap to go with motor

5 A4 hubs

10 A4 springs

25 A4 CV/axles/half shafts (pair)

20 A4 swaybar

? A4 struts non adjustable stock A4 ? 4.7.2? are these 0 or 10 or 25pts each? 25pts is for adjustables?

20 A4 knuckle

40 A4 front arms

? A4 brakes free per 4.7.2 ?

? A4 power steering free per 4.7.2 ?

10 A4 stock front subframe

36 front Opel Steinmetz fender flares,  cause its got to look cool so we can lose in style?

 

So VPI for 150 hp A4 motor swap onto 102hp Opel GT is 75+116 = 191?

 

Starting to sound like alot of work..... hmmm

Have you thought about building an A4 instead of an Opel?

[AustinTX]

8 hours ago, enginerd said:

Have you thought about building an A4 instead of an Opel?

Yes. Considering several cars for builds:

1998 A4 FWD VPI 300

02 TT 6sp VPI 425(VPI 525 w turbo for 3 penalty laps?)

Already caged: 79 Mustang 4 cyl w carb. Will try and get tech done fall race at Harris Hill.

 

Opel Gt starting at 75 points just seemed like more challenging to build and drive as longer term project.

 

 

[mender]

On 4/23/2022 at 7:30 PM, AustinTX said:

Opel Gt starting at 75 points just seemed like more challenging to build and drive as longer term project.

So would an LS mid-engined Astro van with 27 gallons...

Edited April 29, 2022 by mender

[Bandit]

8 minutes ago, mender said:

So would an LS mid-engined Astro van with 26 gallons...

Show up with that and the weight/tire/fuel rule suggestions start looking pretty good.

 

eta-Still think a 27 gal Delta 88 with 315hp aluminum 5.3 would be the better plan. 137vpi after swap.

 

 

Edited April 24, 2022 by Bandit

[AustinTX]

15 hours ago, mender said:

So would an LS mid-engined Astro van with 26 gallons...

YES! I would race that in a heartbeat.

What year VPI starting point?

 

Ehhh can we put two engines in it and still make 500 points?

 

Edited April 24, 2022 by AustinTX

[Team Infiniti]

29 minutes ago, AustinTX said:

YES! I would race that in a heartbeat.

What year VPI starting point?

 

Ehhh can we put two engines in it and still make 500 points?

 

AWD Astro chassis with the stock V6 in front powering the front wheels via welded transfer case with a mid rear mounted V8 on its own transmission

[mender]

1 hour ago, AustinTX said:

YES! I would race that in a heartbeat.

What year VPI starting point?

 

Ehhh can we put two engines in it and still make 500 points?

 

1998 Astro = 200 pts, swap to 2002 Silverado 5.3 with 285 hp for 56 points = 256 points total.

 

The rest is up to you. Chopped, swapped, dropped, armed and dangerous. Have fun!

 

Edited April 24, 2022 by mender