Brake Pad recommendations

[shanehutton]

With the great response to my recent Muffler blowout thread, I figured I would see what the collective wisdom is for brake pads.

 

Our car is a aprx. 200whp Honda Civic with a parts bin brake upgrade to larger calipers (Integra type R) and Mini Cooper rotors and the pads are for a mid 2000s Acura TSX.  It has served us well and seems to do a decent job as we have never had fade, excessive heat, sticking calipers etc.  For the past couple of seasons we have been running a combination of Hawk DTC 60/70 pads at the front and HP+ at the rear.

 

Now, to the issue(s):

1. The front pads are about 2/3 - 3/4 worn at the end of an 8 hour race.  We have to replace them to be sure that we will get through the second 8hr day.  We would love something we can confidently get 16+hrs out of.  We are definitely willing to give up a bit of bite to do so.

 

2. The rear brake circuit runs through a bias adjuster and unless we get pretty aggressive with it, the rears always lock up first.  The rear of the car is very light and the tires are never as warm so I understand the lack of grip.  I have wondered, however, if we could find a pad with less bite than the front so we wouldn't have to crank the bias adjuster so much.  The rear pads currently last about 4 full 16hr races so wear really isn't a concern.  At the moment, we are never really standing on the brake pedal as we are worried about flat spotting the rear tires so we brake earlier and less aggressively.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Chris Huggins]

You could step down to HT10 or try the ER-1 if you want to stay Hawk.    DTC are sprint race pads so its not surprising you are having such short life.

You should definitely be careful letting the rears lock first as that is the more dangerous end to lock.  Removing rear bias will result in more front pad life though.

 

The BMW guys run PF08 and get a full weekend out of it generally.  You could combine PF11 and PF08 or PF01 to play with bias.  Both 11 and 01 wear faster than 08 though.  We get an entire season out of PF08 on our rear pads.

 

ST42, 43, 44, 45 are the "gold standard" of long lasting.  This is what we run on the front to survive 24 hours in one go.  The feel and bite are terrible compared to PF08.

 

Carbotech has compounds that step up in modulation. XP8, XP10, XP12, XP14. 

G-LOC is the same way, with R-# compounds.  We have had good luck with these on the Lexuses running Supra calipers.  They will live for a full weekend with plenty remaining on that big heavy girl.  

Both G-loc and Carbo have great customer service.

 

If you want more info give Ken or Aaron a shout at KNS brakes (Link in signature).  Both of those guys have forgotten more about brakes than I will ever learn.

Edited October 14, 2022 by Chris Huggins

[shanehutton]

Thanks Chris.  With the slightly uncommon pad shape (Acura TSX) we seem to be limited a bit in options but I will start looking at those options.  I have PF 01 or 08 on my E30 and have been very happy with them.

[Team Infiniti]

2 minutes ago, shanehutton said:

limited

Carbotech and prob Gloc are more then a off the shelf company, they can make most any pad, I am sure there are others that do the same.

[Grufton]

The proportioning valve might be your problem.  In very general terms, if you set the rear to 50%, and hit the brakes at 80% of full force then the fronts are at 80% and the rears are at 50%.  As you enter the turn you start releasing the brakes to say 60% - now the fronts are at 60% but the rears are still at 50% (and much more likely to lock up in this case).  I'd suggest ditching the valve, and find another way to take rear brake out - some combination of lower friction rear pads, smaller piston rear calipers, or smaler diameter rear rotors (combined with the right pad/caliper of course).  A true dual master cylinder would be best, but not often practical for our stuff.

[mender]

We run ST42 front pads on our Civic with essentially the same brake combo you have and they are on course to last about 40 hours.  As mentioned, feel and lockup recovery are not great. Pedal effort is fine, just a little numb at threshold.

 

No worries about rear lock up and flat spotted rears because we have little to no rear brakes. They are the stock drum brakes with apparently a forklift compound and we're using a stock proportioning valve and the larger master cylinder.

 

The overall setup on the car works very well, no rear tire lockup, hard trail braking into any corner with a mild and progressive transition to slight off throttle oversteer which switches to neutral with moderate throttle and slight understeer with full throttle. I had considered upgrading the rear brakes to discs and and adjustable proportioning valve as straight line braking is the car's weakest area but the advantage of all of my drivers being able to attack any corner greatly outshadows the slight improvement that we would realize.

 

We corner at 1.2 to 1.3 gs on slower corners and have peak straight line braking right around .8 gs with older R-S4s. 

Edited October 14, 2022 by mender

[TimS]

8 hours ago, shanehutton said:

Thanks Chris.  With the slightly uncommon pad shape (Acura TSX) we seem to be limited a bit in options but I will start looking at those options.  I have PF 01 or 08 on my E30 and have been very happy with them.

If you save the steel back plates Glok will refine with the compound of your choice. Great guys and very easy to work with. They can give a good recommendation as well 

[Fetterhund]

I have been very pleased with Hawk HT10's. Strong initial bite, good feel, easy to modulate after initial bite, great wear rate for us, and not too bad on rotors. 

[Todd K]

We have a 92 Acura Integra; probably a bit heavier than your setup - scaled just under 2200 at Daytona, stock B18A1 at about 130hp I assume.  We run the same brake setup but with 40/40 stock prop valve.  We have run the Hawk blue 9012 in the front and HP+ in the rears.  Sebring, PBIR (now shuttered), and Daytona.  We get a full 8+8 weekend out of a set of pads with plenty of meat left over - but change them out anyway. The rears can likely last 2 race weekends.  My drivers are all former kart racers and I'd say we are more momentum racers and easier on the brakes overall.  We don't have any issues with balance BUT the Integra has a X-pattern prop valve so it's RF-LR / LF-RR instead of front to back.  

 

We are running our setup based on KNS Brakes recommendations - totally happy with what they suggested.  We have not changed our rotors in 5 races - basically brand X from rockauto.

 

Edited October 17, 2022 by Todd K
additional comments

[ross2004]

Honda Prelude, similar power and I'm sure more weight. ST45 front and $15 generic semi-metallics in the rear. The ST45's wear at about half the rate of a DTC-60, and are way easier on rotors. 

[shanehutton]

Thank you everyone.  Lots of good info here and I have a feeling the issue will be solved by spring.