Administrators Bill Strong Posted March 21 Administrators Report Share Posted March 21 Per our operating model, Champcar solicits input from its members via the petition process. The following is a list of petitions submitted by your fellow members. This list is compiled annually by the Board of Directors and sent out to the membership for review and comment. These are NOT rule changes at this time! These petitions may or may not be approved for implementation. This document is distributed in order to receive specific member feedback and discussion on the petitions prior to the Board of Directors vote. Please read and review the petitions and provide official feedback here. After collecting membership feedback, the Board of Directors will vote on the petitions and present the results at the annual meeting. Download here 2023 Petitions V1.0.pdf or here https://champcar.org/web/pdf/bod/2023_Petitions_V1.pdf Submit your feedback herehttps://forms.gle/1HXE5Hf5KftrmE5r6 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmabarone Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 ROFL at a SuperEta making 225hp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ETR Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 35 Valve spring value IDENTIFY THE ISSUE, AS YOU PERCEIVE IT: Free Valve Springs IDENTIFY, IF POSSIBLE, YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF WHY THE CURRENT RULE OR PROCESS WAS INITIATED AND PUT INTO PLACE: I am not sure why it went to zero points for valve springs. I do not remember talk about it going to zero in the past and it just happened. Aren't valve springs 10pts? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Bill Strong Posted March 21 Author Administrators Report Share Posted March 21 by themselves they are, but add a cam and they are included Camshaft – Non-OE or reground or reprofiled OE camshaft, (Includes Springs, Lifters, Pushrods): 50 pts per engine 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Bill Strong Posted March 21 Author Administrators Report Share Posted March 21 in 2021 the bccr listed cams as 50 points, Camshaft - Aftermarket, reground or reprofiled OE camshaft: 50 pts per engine and. Valve train, non-OE: 50 pts per engine 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gkuhn41 Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 #69 for real? We just finished our rear window on our new car and riveted the entire thing with 3/16 body rivets per the rules. Am I going to need to drill out all the rivets for bolts? @National Tech? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Bill Strong Posted March 21 Author Administrators Report Share Posted March 21 3 minutes ago, Gkuhn41 said: #69 for real? We just finished our rear window on our new car and riveted the entire thing with 3/16 body rivets per the rules. Am I going to need to drill out all the rivets for bolts? @National Tech? These are NOT rule changes at this time! These petitions may or may not be approved for implementation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakks Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 3 minutes ago, Gkuhn41 said: #69 for real? We just finished our rear window on our new car and riveted the entire thing with 3/16 body rivets per the rules. Am I going to need to drill out all the rivets for bolts? @National Tech? Maybe you missed this part? "These are NOT rule changes at this time! These petitions may or may not be approved for implementation." Also, its only nut/screw the window straps, not the entire window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gkuhn41 Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 13 minutes ago, jakks said: Maybe you missed this part? "These are NOT rule changes at this time! These petitions may or may not be approved for implementation." Also, its only nut/screw the window straps, not the entire window. Maybe you missed the part on #69 where it says the rule states rivets are specifically called out as ok and they are requiring screws and bolts currently. Where in the rule does it state its only the straps and not the window? My point is if they decide its just straps and its not written in the rule then what's to keep them from saying everything when I go through tech and now I need to do it prior to a race for this year. I'm not asking for a rule change clarification now I'm asking tech what I need to change to be good for this year. I don't like surprises when I go through the tech line I guess I should just bolt the entire thing and then I know I'm good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakks Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 5 minutes ago, Gkuhn41 said: Maybe you missed the part on #69 where it says the rule states rivets are specifically called out as ok and they are requiring screws and bolts currently. Where in the rule does it state its only the straps and not the window? My point is if they decide its just straps and its not written in the rule then what's to keep them from saying everything when I go through tech and now I need to do it prior to a race for this year. I'm not asking for a rule change clarification now I'm asking tech what I need to change to be good for this year. I don't like surprises when I go through the tech line I guess I should just bolt the entire thing and then I know I'm good. Tech has never asked for the entire window to be bolted, just the straps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorman Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 39 minutes ago, Gkuhn41 said: #69 for real? We just finished our rear window on our new car and riveted the entire thing with 3/16 body rivets per the rules. Am I going to need to drill out all the rivets for bolts? @National Tech? We used rivnuts when we redid our rear window a year or so ago. Of course, we haven't been through CCES Tech for two years, so.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee mcoppola Posted March 21 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted March 21 (edited) 4 hours ago, Gkuhn41 said: Maybe you missed the part on #69 where it says the rule states rivets are specifically called out as ok and they are requiring screws and bolts currently. Where in the rule does it state its only the straps and not the window? My point is if they decide its just straps and its not written in the rule then what's to keep them from saying everything when I go through tech and now I need to do it prior to a race for this year. I'm not asking for a rule change clarification now I'm asking tech what I need to change to be good for this year. I don't like surprises when I go through the tech line I guess I should just bolt the entire thing and then I know I'm good. *Tip I've often seen: From all the info I've ever seen on polycarbonate windows, the recommended method is to use small screws/bolts and nylock nuts. The holes should also be slightly larger than the fastener diameter. This will allow the plastic to grow/shrink - as it does with temperature change - without cracking or distortion of the polycarbonate. The advice I've read most is to snug up the fasteners and then back them off until they almost spin. This will allow for this growth/shrinking. Edited March 21 by mcoppola 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotrod Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 Just spent most of the morning going through the petitions. I hope more than 30 ChampCar members also respond. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grufton Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 Might be petty, but if the petition is submitted under a user name instead of member name it's almost surely going to get a "NO" vote from me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindspin311 Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 Regarding petition #39 - M20B27 Calling out a team via petition? Bold. Troy should look at the results of the most recent national championship race. The team/car in question was 4s slower per lap on an FTD basis to the race winner. So is Troy planning to submit a separate petition requesting the VPI of the national championship car be raised as well? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 594 Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 Regarding #21 I did not write that one this time! I don't know Mr E. but I like him. I wrote #70 in 2021 it failed spectacularly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheelman_99 - C Rallo Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 It isn't already too late to turn in petitions for next year? This year has barely begun... just getting a start on these I assume? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheelman_99 - C Rallo Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 (edited) 9 hours ago, ETR said: 35 Valve spring value IDENTIFY THE ISSUE, AS YOU PERCEIVE IT: Free Valve Springs IDENTIFY, IF POSSIBLE, YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF WHY THE CURRENT RULE OR PROCESS WAS INITIATED AND PUT INTO PLACE: I am not sure why it went to zero points for valve springs. I do not remember talk about it going to zero in the past and it just happened. Aren't valve springs 10pts? 9 hours ago, Bill Strong said: by themselves they are, but add a cam and they are included Camshaft – Non-OE or reground or reprofiled OE camshaft, (Includes Springs, Lifters, Pushrods): 50 pts per engine 9 hours ago, Bill Strong said: in 2021 the bccr listed cams as 50 points, Camshaft - Aftermarket, reground or reprofiled OE camshaft: 50 pts per engine and. Valve train, non-OE: 50 pts per engine my other question is... Why did valvetrain get its own line separate from cam and how many teams have push rods or rockers/followers with a cam, but are only taking 50 pts? Edited March 21 by Wheelman_99 - C Rallo grammar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grufton Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 27 minutes ago, Wheelman_99 - C Rallo said: It isn't already too late to turn in petitions for next year? This year has barely begun... just getting a start on these I assume? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheelman_99 - C Rallo Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 8 minutes ago, Grufton said: Thank you. That's a handy list. Great to be organized, great that the new BCCR comes out early, but holy hell... Feb 28th... after literally NO races have been run under the 2023 rules?? That is a bit extreme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheelman_99 - C Rallo Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 Thank you Troy for getting in petitions for most if not all the things I had on my list. You have a few more on your list though and a couple different solutions, but at least the doors are opened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresmoker Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 10 hours ago, Bill Strong said: These are NOT rule changes at this time! These petitions may or may not be approved for implementation. Bill, how do members vote on these petitions? There's 70+ of them. Some may deserve commentary, but most would be a simple Yes or No (for me). -Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheelman_99 - C Rallo Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 1 minute ago, Tiresmoker said: Bill, how do members vote on these petitions? There's 70+ of them. Some may deserve commentary, but most would be a simple Yes or No (for me). -Dave Link at bottom of his post. Opens to a Google form thingy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABR-Glen Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 Just keep in mind members don't "vote" per se, BOD will review member comments but may decide to proceed differently than the most popular member responses. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Bill Strong Posted March 22 Author Administrators Report Share Posted March 22 2 hours ago, Tiresmoker said: Bill, how do members vote on these petitions? There's 70+ of them. Some may deserve commentary, but most would be a simple Yes or No (for me). -Dave Submit your feedback herehttps://forms.gle/1HXE5Hf5KftrmE5r6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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