kevinatfms Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 If one were to have a single crash bolt to correct camber on one side of the vehicle does that account for 20 points? The tech sheet states (pair) under BCCR 4.3.2. and we are only needing to run one side due to the car being FUBARed up front from the prior owner(before being turned into a race car). The car does have coilovers which can account for some of the camber issues but even at full negative on the top hat on the driver side the camber still shows -.5 at the most. Cant cut the tower due to space. Only way to correct it is a single crash bolt turned full negative. Is this 20 points? 10 points or 0 points? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 A smaller grade 8 bolt is free.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Bill Strong Posted March 28 Administrators Report Share Posted March 28 bolts are free Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakks Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 (edited) What is a crash bolt? edit: Nevermind. Edited March 28 by jakks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 2 hours ago, Bill Strong said: bolts are free Even eccentric ones? Asking for a friend. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbogrill Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 49 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said: Even eccentric ones? Asking for a friend. No I think that is an offset bushings...5pts a side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimS Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 (edited) If I weld a free washer onto a free bolt and since I can’t weld very well I get the washer welded off center. Can I use this combo to replace the original lower control arm bolt? Asking for a friend. Edited March 28 by TimS 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronh911 Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 4 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said: Even eccentric ones? Asking for a friend. I would say yes, even though it has an eccentric on it it’s still a fastener which is free(unless it’s duct tape, everyone knows that’s cheaty). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbogrill Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 1 hour ago, Ronh911 said: I would say yes, even though it has an eccentric on it it’s still a fastener which is free(unless it’s duct tape, everyone knows that’s cheaty). Then why are offset bushings points? They are just excentric bolts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronh911 Posted March 29 Report Share Posted March 29 4 hours ago, turbogrill said: Then why are offset bushings points? They are just excentric bolts... Bushings aren’t fasteners, but bushings are free, no idea why bushings with an offset hole are points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbogrill Posted March 29 Report Share Posted March 29 11 hours ago, Ronh911 said: Bushings aren’t fasteners, but bushings are free, no idea why bushings with an offset hole are points. A solid bushing is a big fastener Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheelman_99 - C Rallo Posted March 29 Report Share Posted March 29 Hardware is free. Bolts are not bushings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbogrill Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 You can do whatever you want, the definition for a fastener in the rules are something that attaches things. An excentric bolts is doing that and a little bit more... But again I have no clue, I just know that a bushing with regular bolt is free but a bushing with excentric bolt is point. Do what you want and maybe ask tech. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 1 hour ago, turbogrill said: But again I have no clue, I just know that a bushing with regular bolt is free but a bushing with excentric bolt is point. The offset bushing thing doesn't have anything to do with eccentric bolts. I am very confused by the statements above. The bushing rules don't say anything about the fasteners that attach them. It's referring to the hole location in the bushing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotrod Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 So you can use an eccentric bolt to make camber. You can't use an offset bushing to make camber unless you claim points. You can't use a camber plate unless you claim points. But you can use an eccentric bolt to make camber. That's why there should be no free parts everything has a value. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ETR Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 9 minutes ago, hotrod said: So you can use an eccentric bolt to make camber. You can't use an offset bushing to make camber unless you claim points. You can't use a camber plate unless you claim points. But you can use an eccentric bolt to make camber. That's why there should be no free parts everything has a value. Eccentric bolts are an oem item to set alignment. Offset bushings are not an oem item. Camber plates are not an oem item. Are we saying that eccentric bolts are being added to cars for no points? Didn't know that was a thing, am I missing something? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotrod Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 3 minutes ago, ETR said: Eccentric bolts are an oem item to set alignment. Offset bushings are not an oem item. Camber plates are not an oem item. Are we saying that eccentric bolts are being added to cars for no points? Didn't know that was a thing, am I missing something? That's what is being asked in this post. Bolts are free................... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ETR Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 2 minutes ago, hotrod said: That's what is being asked in this post. Bolts are free................... Gotcha. It seems simple on the surface, but digging into the gray areas I can see how these questions pop up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 Also, you can just drill new holes in the strut towers to lean the entire strut in. No points. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyk Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 3 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said: Also, you can just drill new holes in the strut towers to lean the entire strut in. No points. Drilling holes in non stock location for a performance gain is free? Asking for a friend 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDChristianson Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 21 minutes ago, scottyk said: Drilling holes in non stock location for a performance gain is free? Asking for a friend Yea changing suspension geometry is no points. It’s not like it’s a performance thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanehutton Posted April 1 Report Share Posted April 1 My two cents: Points should be based on the result and not the means of achieving the result. Nothing that increases the performance of the car should be free and it definitely shouldn't be free only if you do it a certain way. -A new mounting location, offset bushing, camber plate, eccentric bolt, all adjust alignment outside of the OEM window that was "factored" into the cars starting value. -A plastic air damn does the same thing as a piece of metal that used to be the trunk lid. -Insert a hundred other "depends who you ask" or "depends how you do it" rules here. . . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinatfms Posted April 4 Author Report Share Posted April 4 On 3/31/2023 at 9:10 PM, shanehutton said: My two cents: Points should be based on the result and not the means of achieving the result. Nothing that increases the performance of the car should be free and it definitely shouldn't be free only if you do it a certain way. -A new mounting location, offset bushing, camber plate, eccentric bolt, all adjust alignment outside of the OEM window that was "factored" into the cars starting value. -A plastic air damn does the same thing as a piece of metal that used to be the trunk lid. -Insert a hundred other "depends who you ask" or "depends how you do it" rules here. . . Any pictures of your old Elantra? This issue with the points is that we arent doing it to both sides. Due to the car being a Dukes of Hazard wanna be by the previous owner it is shaped like a banana under the driver side. Even with the coilovers we have on the car at max camber the driver side is nearly 0 degrees. Was hoping that it didnt cost points but will add to our tech sheet to ensure we are in compliance with the rules. Id love to drill the tower but there isnt anywhere else to drill without cutting the tower out and adding metal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinatfms Posted April 5 Author Report Share Posted April 5 And just to update. The 2023 tech sheet says "camber adjust aftermarket(pair)" is 20 points front or rear. From what i am interpreting this would be adjustable top hats and that crash bolts in the knuckle is not considered points? I am only using them on one side to correct the positive camber due to a crash using a crash bolt approved as a factory alignment correction tool. So can i claim 0 points for it being an approved by the manufacturer fix for crashed vehicles with out of factory spec alignment? If i must take points, can i claim 10 points for only using one side? As the tech sheet says (pair) after the "camber adjust aftermarket"? I dont think its giving us any performance advantage compared to our Class B competition. We are competing with the likes of very well prepped NC Miata and that insanely fast MGD Prelude in Class B. Basically bringing a spork to a bazooka fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grufton Posted April 5 Report Share Posted April 5 Anything you get here is speculation. If you want an official answer, you should submit a ticket at the tech desk. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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