RR896 Posted April 4 Report Share Posted April 4 We are a father and 2 sons who want to go Champcar racing. We bought a tired 94 SM that has been running in the NE for years. It still is on Bilsteins and doesnt have a few of the other more recent tweaks. Have been doing HPDE with it to get driver skill up before we go W2W. Looking at the rules it does not look like it makes sense to try and get a 94 SM car back to 300 pts correct? Also looks lime it will need cage work as SCCA doesn't require dash bar. So would you recommend a good starting place to just run an event as is and if we are hooked build out to a 500 point car as we go? We are from SFL so Sebring is our home track and thinking about doing Sebring in July. Thanks for helping new to Champ. Jason 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obscene Posted April 12 Report Share Posted April 12 Another option would be to rent seats in another car. Lots of great options, especially if you want to drive a miata. That gets you the champcar experience without worrying about your car. If you want to try it with your 94 SM, then focus on the safety items first. Get the dashbar welded in, get the fire system, etc. Run a race with the SM setup and then make adjustments as you like. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Infiniti Posted April 12 Report Share Posted April 12 On 4/4/2023 at 6:42 PM, RR896 said: We are a father and 2 sons who want to go Champcar racing. We bought a tired 94 SM that has been running in the NE for years. It still is on Bilsteins and doesnt have a few of the other more recent tweaks. Have been doing HPDE with it to get driver skill up before we go W2W. Looking at the rules it does not look like it makes sense to try and get a 94 SM car back to 300 pts correct? Also looks lime it will need cage work as SCCA doesn't require dash bar. So would you recommend a good starting place to just run an event as is and if we are hooked build out to a 500 point car as we go? We are from SFL so Sebring is our home track and thinking about doing Sebring in July. Thanks for helping new to Champ. Jason Don’t worry about points for the moment, like @obscene mentioned, get the car Champ safety legal, buy number plates, check fire bottle/window net seat belt dates and enter July Sebring, start having fun. Most everyone is welcome to run here, be it F (300 or less pts.) A (up to 500 or more with lap penalties) or EC if points are hard. Saying that, where specifically are you located? I have helped more then a half dozen teams get up to spec and out on track with us. I’m in west palm and street drive our D car. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chappy Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 On 4/4/2023 at 5:42 PM, RR896 said: We are a father and 2 sons who want to go Champcar racing. We bought a tired 94 SM that has been running in the NE for years. It still is on Bilsteins and doesnt have a few of the other more recent tweaks. Have been doing HPDE with it to get driver skill up before we go W2W. Looking at the rules it does not look like it makes sense to try and get a 94 SM car back to 300 pts correct? Also looks lime it will need cage work as SCCA doesn't require dash bar. So would you recommend a good starting place to just run an event as is and if we are hooked build out to a 500 point car as we go? We are from SFL so Sebring is our home track and thinking about doing Sebring in July. Thanks for helping new to Champ. Jason 94 starts at 300 points, so basically would have to pull off the sway bars and adjustable coil overs. That will get you back to 300. Like others have suggested, get the safety updated, don’t change any parts in the car. Run it for a few races and see how it goes. If you like it (which I bet you will!), start modifying up to 500 points if you want to go quicker. The pretty common 500ish point NA is: - coil overs - swaybar(s) - NB 1.8 Swap (pick your flavor) - 225/245 tires - header - aftermarket ecu - air dam - splitter - big wang This is basically the setup on my 91 that has multiple top 5 overall and A class wins. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RR896 Posted April 13 Author Report Share Posted April 13 6 hours ago, Team Infiniti said: Don’t worry about points for the moment, like @obscene mentioned, get the car Champ safety legal, buy number plates, check fire bottle/window net seat belt dates and enter July Sebring, start having fun. Most everyone is welcome to run here, be it F (300 or less pts.) A (up to 500 or more with lap penalties) or EC if points are hard. Saying that, where specifically are you located? I have helped more then a half dozen teams get up to spec and out on track with us. I’m in west palm and street drive our D car. I would absolutely take you up on this offer. We are in Northern part of Palm Beach County. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RR896 Posted April 13 Author Report Share Posted April 13 32 minutes ago, Chappy said: 94 starts at 300 points, so basically would have to pull off the sway bars and adjustable coil overs. That will get you back to 300. Like others have suggested, get the safety updated, don’t change any parts in the car. Run it for a few races and see how it goes. If you like it (which I bet you will!), start modifying up to 500 points if you want to go quicker. The pretty common 500ish point NA is: - coil overs - swaybar(s) - NB 1.8 Swap (pick your flavor) - 225/245 tires - header - aftermarket ecu - air dam - splitter - big wang This is basically the setup on my 91 that has multiple top 5 overall and A class wins. I think like you and others said we will focus on safety items and get out there. Once safety is addressed we will need to make a tire decision to even be able to run the first event. We are running Spec Miata 15 x 7 wheels with Toyo right now which i dont think will last. What tire to start out with and do we run on this rim or change to a different size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RR896 Posted April 13 Author Report Share Posted April 13 7 hours ago, obscene said: Another option would be to rent seats in another car. Lots of great options, especially if you want to drive a miata. That gets you the champcar experience without worrying about your car. If you want to try it with your 94 SM, then focus on the safety items first. Get the dashbar welded in, get the fire system, etc. Run a race with the SM setup and then make adjustments as you like. I will consider renting a seat. Is best place to find seats on facebook. Dont currently have login but could hijack my wifes to get access I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Infiniti Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 (edited) 21 minutes ago, RR896 said: I would absolutely take you up on this offer. We are in Northern part of Palm Beach County. Im in Loxahatchee with 4 other Champ teams, the car splits its time between there and southern/Jog @ my shop, where it is now recovering from April fools @ Daytona. Come by and lets get your car ready for Sebring Hankook rs4 is a great tire to set and forget for several races. Edited April 13 by Team Infiniti 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RR896 Posted April 13 Author Report Share Posted April 13 2 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said: Im in Loxahatchee with 4 other Champ teams, the car splits its time between there and southern/Jog @ my shop, where it is right now recovering from April fools @ Daytona. Come by and lets get your car ready for Sebring Hankook rs4 is a great tire to set and forget for several races. Awsome. I just tried sending you a private email but it says i cant send as you cant receive messages. How best to trade contact info? Would love to meet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Infiniti Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 1 minute ago, RR896 said: Awsome. I just tried sending you a private email but it says i cant send as you cant receive messages. How best to trade contact info? Would love to meet. Ill dump some old mail in the bin, try messaging me in 5 min. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmabarone Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 Just to add a bit to the conversation since you brought up F Class. We ran against a Ford Escort in F at Daytona. Assuming it was legal (we weren't going to protest them in our first race), they ran very competitive overall times in spite of giving up 200 points. I say take the car as it sits, make sure all your safety gear is up to snuff, and go out and race. Keep it clean and you should finish well even with a 350 pt car. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillar K Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 8 hours ago, RR896 said: We are running Spec Miata 15 x 7 wheels with Toyo right now which i dont think will last. What tire to start out with and do we run on this rim or change to a different size. We ran 205's on 7" wheels for many years. They work well. First Direzza's and then RS4's. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattGent Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 (edited) I'm in Jupiter. Have run a few races in rental NA Miatas and been interested in starting or joining a team. I'd put RS4s on your car as-is + safety for tech and go race. Champcar rocks Willing to chat any time. Matthewgent@gmail.com Edited April 13 by MattGent 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obscene Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 11 hours ago, RR896 said: I will consider renting a seat. Is best place to find seats on facebook. Dont currently have login but could hijack my wifes to get access I guess. There is a dedicated sub-forum here for finding seats, and you could also check https://seat4.sale/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMiskoe Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 We did the jump from SM to Champcar a while back. Many years in on Champ now and a few decades in on SCCA I am familiar with the differences. Your car may not have issues with all of this, but these are the ones where the two rule books don't overlap. Cage - dash bar you already commented on. Door bars are likely an issue too. Check your center to center separation where the two door bars meet the A-pillar bar. Many SM cars are too close for Champ. Window net - I guarantee yours won't pass. Champ has a hair across their ass about window nets. I watched a 25+ car field of SM cars come into impound. Could count on 1 hand how many would meet Champs' requirements. Champ also wants window nets to be within a certain age (3 years?) Firewall/package shelf sealing - SCCA is not as strict about how well sealed this is. Get a couple of tubes of intumescent caulking (Hilti FS-1 or similar) and a light. Put the light in the trunk/under the dash, turn off the shop lights - all those spots the lights come through should get caulked. Collars on the roll cage where the harnesses mount - Champ wants something on the bar to keep the harnesses located. Rear glass - needs to be covered in film. Same for RH side glass if you have it. Kill switch - SCCA wants it outside, Champ wants it where the driver can reach it. Fire bottle - SCCA is less strict on what is allowed. Even if you don't rent a seat, if you can, go to a race and look at the cars, compare the differences so you don't get caught out. Like the rest have said, do the safety go race it. Nothing on the safety list is going kick it out of SCCA if you wanted to go back. Performance wise you'll be down on power but the SM suspension package is pretty good as it is. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Infiniti Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 11 minutes ago, MMiskoe said: We did the jump from SM to Champcar a while back. Many years in on Champ now and a few decades in on SCCA I am familiar with the differences. Your car may not have issues with all of this, but these are the ones where the two rule books don't overlap. Cage - dash bar you already commented on. Door bars are likely an issue too. Check your center to center separation where the two door bars meet the A-pillar bar. Many SM cars are too close for Champ. Window net - I guarantee yours won't pass. Champ has a hair across their ass about window nets. I watched a 25+ car field of SM cars come into impound. Could count on 1 hand how many would meet Champs' requirements. Champ also wants window nets to be within a certain age (3 years?) Firewall/package shelf sealing - SCCA is not as strict about how well sealed this is. Get a couple of tubes of intumescent caulking (Hilti FS-1 or similar) and a light. Put the light in the trunk/under the dash, turn off the shop lights - all those spots the lights come through should get caulked. Collars on the roll cage where the harnesses mount - Champ wants something on the bar to keep the harnesses located. Rear glass - needs to be covered in film. Same for RH side glass if you have it. Kill switch - SCCA wants it outside, Champ wants it where the driver can reach it. Fire bottle - SCCA is less strict on what is allowed. Even if you don't rent a seat, if you can, go to a race and look at the cars, compare the differences so you don't get caught out. Like the rest have said, do the safety go race it. Nothing on the safety list is going kick it out of SCCA if you wanted to go back. Performance wise you'll be down on power but the SM suspension package is pretty good as it is. Thanks for the list, I’ll be seeing the car tomorrow afternoon, this will be helpful, it might be a bit much for the new guy without a lil help from us. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillar K Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 15 hours ago, Chappy said: - coil overs - swaybar(s) - NB 1.8 Swap (pick your flavor) - 225/245 tires - header - aftermarket ecu - air dam - splitter - big wang This is basically the setup on my 91 that has multiple top 5 overall and A class wins. Pretty much the same here, except went back to stock sway bars and ends. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chappy Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 17 hours ago, RR896 said: I think like you and others said we will focus on safety items and get out there. Once safety is addressed we will need to make a tire decision to even be able to run the first event. We are running Spec Miata 15 x 7 wheels with Toyo right now which i dont think will last. What tire to start out with and do we run on this rim or change to a different size. If you don’t want the expense of new wheels right now, run some 205 RS4s. I’ve run 225s on a 7 before and you lose a lot of steering feel. If you are wanting wider, get some new lighter weight wheels (you can get some 15x9 that weigh less than your SM 15x7s). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RR896 Posted April 14 Author Report Share Posted April 14 Wow! Thanks for the support. What a great intro to the community. Really want to make this happen. Bringing the car tomorrow to Team Infinity to look over. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMiskoe Posted April 14 Report Share Posted April 14 On 4/4/2023 at 6:42 PM, RR896 said: We are a father and 2 sons who want to go Champcar racing. FWIW - we started out as two fathers and one son/grandson. First ever three generation team, 63 years between the drivers. Then when kid #2 was old enough we were like you - father and 2 sons. Families that race together stay together. Go make it happen. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachMK21 Posted April 14 Report Share Posted April 14 (edited) 9 hours ago, MMiskoe said: FWIW - we started out as two fathers and one son/grandson. First ever three generation team, 63 years between the drivers. Then when kid #2 was old enough we were like you - father and 2 sons. Families that race together stay together. Go make it happen. We're a 3 generation team as well. My uncle, my oldest brother, my cousin, myself and my oldest son. Ages 78 to 22. We all did the 2021 PittRace together and will be together again at Watkins Glen next month. We all wish my Dad was still around to see us doing the thing he started 64 years ago. He passed away in 2009 and we started ChampCar racing in 2014. Edited April 14 by CoachMK21 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gundy Posted April 15 Report Share Posted April 15 On 4/12/2023 at 11:04 PM, RR896 said: I would absolutely take you up on this offer. We are in Northern part of Palm Beach County. I am in Martin County and run a Miata in B class. If I can be of any assistance let me know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Infiniti Posted April 20 Report Share Posted April 20 On 4/13/2023 at 9:11 PM, RR896 said: Wow! Thanks for the support. What a great intro to the community. Really want to make this happen. Bringing the car tomorrow to Team Infinity to look over. Good meeting, didn’t look like you were too far away from converting, to keep it written, a dash bar, net, plug some holes, plumb a engine fire nozzle and touch up welds. I came here to say we forgot something important, testing your Killswitch, what they are going to do in tech: “Step on the brakes and hold, start the engine rev 2000+ RPM and pull the switch“ it’s supposed to kill the revving engine and brake lights(as well as everything else). Give it a shot and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd K Posted April 20 Report Share Posted April 20 1. Welcome to the fun - we're newish (going on our year 3) and one of Ed's 'mentees' ...... 2. Ed has helped us out and saved us years of pain and suffering and in the end, $$ 3. Listen carefully to Ed - he's very wise in all things Champcar....and racing for that matter 4. When in doubt, see #3. Lastly - we run a 1991 Integra so cannot help with Miata questions. Although we are happy to lend assistance or just bench race if needed. You are also welcome to come look at our car - but we have used the 'Shark car' as our model. In the same neighborhood as Ed - Acreage. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55mini Posted April 20 Report Share Posted April 20 (edited) 1 hour ago, Todd K said: 1. Welcome to the fun - we're newish (going on our year 3) and one of Ed's 'mentees' ...... 2. Ed has helped us out and saved us years of pain and suffering and in the end, $$ 3. Listen carefully to Ed - he's very wise in all things Champcar....and racing for that matter 4. When in doubt, see #3. Lastly - we run a 1991 Integra so cannot help with Miata questions. Although we are happy to lend assistance or just bench race if needed. You are also welcome to come look at our car - but we have used the 'Shark car' as our model. In the same neighborhood as Ed - Acreage. WOW!! Ed your feet comeback down from the clouds yet??? Well earned sir. @RR896 I would talk to any and all teams you can and Dennis (Gundy has been around miata's for sometime) Our team is all miata's, two and open to any questions, from a northerner if you can trust someone from this part of the world. Champcar has a great bunch of folks to chat with. Edited April 20 by 55mini 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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