-5 negative camber on NA Miata - something bent?

[turbogrill]

Hi,

I have a 1.6 Miata with racing beat lowering springs, the ride height is a little lower than stock but quite tall for a race car.

 

With my paco hubstands installed I can get around -4 to -5 negative camber, that sounds way to high? Something broken?

Or can you get this much camber on these cars?

[55mini]

If your using the gauge that came with the stands I would suggest you swing the gauge 180 degrees and see what it reads.

I have found it is spot on in one direction and then way high in the other. This is the small magnetic which I stick onto the stand.

 

Now to your question on an NA 1.6 I can get over -4 on either side up front with full caster.

[turbogrill]

2 hours ago, 55mini said:

If your using the gauge that came with the stands I would suggest you swing the gauge 180 degrees and see what it reads.

I have found it is spot on in one direction and then way high in the other. This is the small magnetic which I stick onto the stand.

 

Now to your question on an NA 1.6 I can get over -4 on either side up front with full caster.

 

I verified the gauge 100 times!

 

I will double check caster

[MMiskoe]

Front?

 

Put all the adjusters at their mid point and see what you have for both camber and toe at both front and rear.

 

I'm not sure you should be able to get to 5 degrees w/o some offset bushings.  Did you check that the upper CA's don't have offset bushings?  Pretty common item in the front for Spec Miata.

[cowboys647]

I've never been able to get over 4 on mine for reference. 

[turbogrill]

I took it to a shop and they couldn't get the alignment good either. They suspect something bent.

Rear is screwed,I can get good toe with the cost of bad thrust and bad camber. I am maxing out rear toe adjustment to get 1/16 toe and camber is all out of whack for that.

 

what is bent?

 

my camber bolts was also in a bad shape, my new bolts was still the D type shape. I heard there is supposed to be something better.

Edited May 22 by turbogrill

[MMiskoe]

Separate the problems from front to back, they are independent, even if the car is a banana.

 

When it was at the shop did they try to get it right, or look at it with all the control arm adjusters at mid-point?  It can be good to put all the adjusters to their mid point and measure what you have, it can point to the wheel that is the problem.  You need either a rack or a string set up to isolate the rear toe to each wheel, not just the combined total.

 

Camber is pretty dependent on ride height, especially at the front.  I recently got reminded of that when changing ride height and then scratching my head at my lack of negative camber because I was higher than before.  For the Penske shocks, Mazda recommends 10.125" front, 6.125" rear - top of spring perch to center of shock bolt.  That is another starting point for you, set it there and see what you have for camber.

 

Rear is often a knuckle or the big bolt that connects the knuckle to the LCA.  Start with the big bolt - loosen it, turn it, watch for dynamic toe and camber.  Then look at the knuckle.

 

Fronts are often lower control arm, but they are pretty cheap, however we've scrapped some knuckles too.  Upper control arms are rarely the problem (if they are, there would lots of other broken stuff).  The front k-member can get bent, but you'll usually bend the chassis at the same time.

 

Unfortunately if you're questioning the individual parts, it is hard to measure them to see if they are bent, you end up just replacing them to see if it gets better.

 

 

 

 

 

[MMiskoe]

Edit - I really wish I was not so familiar with what parts of a Miata get bent.

[turbogrill]

On 5/22/2023 at 9:27 PM, MMiskoe said:

Separate the problems from front to back, they are independent, even if the car is a banana.

 

When it was at the shop did they try to get it right, or look at it with all the control arm adjusters at mid-point?  It can be good to put all the adjusters to their mid point and measure what you have, it can point to the wheel that is the problem.  You need either a rack or a string set up to isolate the rear toe to each wheel, not just the combined total.

 

Camber is pretty dependent on ride height, especially at the front.  I recently got reminded of that when changing ride height and then scratching my head at my lack of negative camber because I was higher than before.  For the Penske shocks, Mazda recommends 10.125" front, 6.125" rear - top of spring perch to center of shock bolt.  That is another starting point for you, set it there and see what you have for camber.

 

Rear is often a knuckle or the big bolt that connects the knuckle to the LCA.  Start with the big bolt - loosen it, turn it, watch for dynamic toe and camber.  Then look at the knuckle.

 

Fronts are often lower control arm, but they are pretty cheap, however we've scrapped some knuckles too.  Upper control arms are rarely the problem (if they are, there would lots of other broken stuff).  The front k-member can get bent, but you'll usually bend the chassis at the same time.

 

Unfortunately if you're questioning the individual parts, it is hard to measure them to see if they are bent, you end up just replacing them to see if it gets better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks!

 

So it's not obvious if a part is bent? Also is there a way to check if the chassis or K-member is bent?

[MMiskoe]

When I say it is not obvious, if you have a good and bad a-arm or knuckle, sometimes you can see the problem, but not often.  The parts have so many curves and angles when one gets altered it isn't always easy to spot.  They don't have to be off by much.

 

Chassis/k-members you can start by looking for ripples or bends in major sections - look at the frame rails between the k-member and the fire wall.  It should be straight and flat, also compare it to the other side, they should be symmetrical.  Look at the tunnel inside the car, check it doesn't have any non-symmetrical bends/waves/ areas that look like they are not part of the normal parts.

 

If it were my car I would check that long bolt at the lower-rear control arm by spinning it (this is a common item to bend, and really easy to check).  After that, set all the ride heights to a middle range, all the camber adjusters to middle.  Measure the distance from centerline of the hubs front to back, then compare to the other side.

 

Then set up some strings to see if one wheel is different.  The rear is hard to have a change in camber without a change in toe. 

 

After that you need to start checking a-arm connection points with either a plum-bob to the floor, or take it to a frame shop that has a rig that can measure the chassis.