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The turn 2 wreck White Miata 147, At The Glen


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wow, what cause the accident?

We have a theory, We think the lucky charms leprechaun thought Ed was after his lucky charms,.... leprechauns and gremlins hang out at the same bars...We think he got one of his drinking buddies to give Ed a Visit in turn two....Thats all we got right now...

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  • Technical Advisory Committee

not to take away from the discussion.... but did you do a cell phone video of your computer monitor? :P:lol:

too choppy to tell much - need video from the other car.

My semi-educated guess (based on what I saw of the track in that area), with only the 1 video, is that the other car involved slid out to half track (or moved in that direction, expecting the other car to be moving towards the next apex) where your car was and tagged the rear tire with his front tire, accentuating the contact.

I've have seen incidents where one of the cars moves WAY more than you would expect to see from what looks like a pretty simple tap. SCCA National at Mid-O, Neon rolled a Caddy. Sometimes its just a matter of how the contact happens.

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not to take away from the discussion.... but did you do a cell phone video of your computer monitor? :P:lol:

too choppy to tell much - need video from the other car.

My semi-educated guess (based on what I saw of the track in that area), with only the 1 video, is that the other car involved slid out to half track (or moved in that direction, expecting the other car to be moving towards the next apex) where your car was and tagged the rear tire with his front tire, accentuating the contact.

I've have seen incidents where one of the cars moves WAY more than you would expect to see from what looks like a pretty simple tap. SCCA National at Mid-O, Neon rolled a Caddy. Sometimes its just a matter of how the contact happens.

Yes Camera.....Does it really take 4 hours to down-load a 13 minute Video to you-tube? I have a good copy from the Go-Pro chip on my lap top...

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Here's my two cents since you've posted the video. It's obvious the BMW taps you to send you spinning around but the whole incident could have been avoided had you simply lifted and follwed him up through the Esses then passed him a little later. You were obviously quicker and a little patience would have paid off here. You're making an outside move in a corner that you know leads to another corner and it seems to me you're hope is that the Bimmer is not going to track out or lift. I'm far from innocent and I made a foolish move going into the Esses early Saturday that taught me quickly to give a little more room than I was. I hate to see anyone hurt during racing and I hope your driver is okay.

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Of course the prudent thing would have been to hang back, but he had the room and the BMW shouldn't have needed to move that far over to finish his corner. I'm pretty sure I would have done the same thing with the same result. Too bad, looked like a fun run.

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I passed lots of cars in that same spot but I usually had a much larger speed differential, i.e. they were entering the track from the pits. But the Miata was clearly at least partially past the bimmer when the bimmer made his move to the left. At that point the corner is the Miata's and the bimmer should have lifted. IMHO.

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That was our beloved coROLLa, which was rolled in it's third race (winter 2009 at CMP). It went on to run 14 races total, earn three podiums and a win at the inaugural Chumpcar Sebring race in 2010. We retired it last December. I almost cried driving away from it in the salvage yard. :(

It's racing life in a nutshell:

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I passed lots of cars in that same spot but I usually had a much larger speed differential, i.e. they were entering the track from the pits. But the Miata was clearly at least partially past the bimmer when the bimmer made his move to the left. At that point the corner is the Miata's and the bimmer should have lifted. IMHO.

You are correct the BMW should have backed off a hair or just held a tighter corner so as to not contact the Miata, but according to the Chump Car rule book,8.7.2.3 the pass was not yet complete

"The definition of a full and complete pass is when the overtaking car has extended a lead of approximately one car length ahead of the vehicle being passed. "

By the rule book the Miata was at fault in this incident. This is an issue I see with the current passing rule, in that there is very little if any onus put on the car being passed to ensure a safe pass.

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Here's my two cents since you've posted the video. It's obvious the BMW taps you to send you spinning around but the whole incident could have been avoided had you simply lifted and follwed him up through the Esses then passed him a little later. You were obviously quicker and a little patience would have paid off here. You're making an outside move in a corner that you know leads to another corner and it seems to me you're hope is that the Bimmer is not going to track out or lift. I'm far from innocent and I made a foolish move going into the Esses early Saturday that taught me quickly to give a little more room than I was. I hate to see anyone hurt during racing and I hope your driver is okay.

The reality of this is that a Miata rapidly closing on a six-cylinder E30 at the bottom of the Esses is going to have to wait a long, long time for a pass if the Miata tucks in behind the E30 and waits. The BMW should be able to pull away from the Miata if the Miata slows to match the BMW on that up hill section, and the next opportunity to pass probably won't come until after the bus stop, when the Miata closes again in the twisties. Lots of incentive to go ahead and make the pass on the outside of Turn 2 in that situation. If you're going to be pokey going up that hill, you'd better expect to have other drivers flying around you on all sides. I have passed cars on the outside and the inside of all three turns in the Esses, because I had momentum in a low hp car, and I didn't want to give it away. By the same token, if you're not going by fast enough to be clearly in the other driver's view (i.e mostly past the car) before the point the other driver would start moving in, you are taking a huge risk, and losing momentum is the better option.

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The old standard is the "driver's door". Why? Because if you don't notice a car next to your door, suddenly, you're brain dead. The Miata was almost completely past the bimmer. The Miata was hit in the rear passenger quarter; how did the bimmer driver not see it??

Things happen fast at 100 MPH, mistakes are made. And we are all guilty of making mistakes, each and every race. I made a couple at the Glen and fortunately never had contact. In this case, though, I think the onus is on the slower bimmer to NOT run into the faster Miata after it is mostly past. All it would have taken is a short lift to tuck in, and then draft and blow that Miata's doors off on the long straight.

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This is an issue I see with the current passing rule, in that there is very little if any onus put on the car being passed to ensure a safe pass.

You'll get that wherever there is "presumption of..."; it's why the term "Brazilian Job" has a completely different meaning in open-wheel racing than in the rest of the world.

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That was our beloved coROLLa, which was rolled in it's third race (winter 2009 at CMP). It went on to run 14 races total, earn three podiums and a win at the inaugural Chumpcar Sebring race in 2010. We retired it last December. I almost cried driving away from it in the salvage yard. :(

It's racing life in a nutshell: [media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHO46t-gkQ4

Now Iam cryin!

Hay!, Thats me in the Road Atlanta Video, driving very bad..As I am going down the hill, a voice came in my head, and said, DONT BE AN ASSSHOLE! ......Was that You?

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