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The Very Unofficial Daytona Timing and Scoring Issues Thread


bcakes
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For our entire Chump "career" we have a very old secondhand used battery transponder, I carefully recharge and discharge it 2 or 3 times before each race to bring the internal battery up a little, it is mounted in a proper holder on the frame rail behind the front tire where the frame becomes lowest and parallel to the ground.


 


100% reliable


 


Are some of the folks with issues formally trouble free?


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Are some of the folks with issues formally trouble free?

 

 

aHEM. So, of the guys who had problems, or were they first-timers, or well-used chump? First time for the car, or previously chump-scarred? Of those previously chump-scarred, what is the previous track record w/transponders? Was the mounting location the same?

 

And, just to ask Infiniti's question, has it only worked right for them while wearing a tux? :ph34r:

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Guest Driver #4

I'll start by saying that we had a great time at Daytona, and we are very happy with our results!

But our transponder worked well at Sebring, Road Atlanta and last year at Daytona. Within a few laps of the start, we reported to chump that we weren't being scored. We then rented a transponder. We told Chump that we hadn't pitted yet, and we hadn't been passed by the leaders. On our first pit stop, we switched transponders. When we removed our personal transponder, we saw the green light still blinking. When we appeared on the leader board, we were placed 10 laps back from the leader. We are happy Chump gave us some laps.

But through good luck and other's bad luck, we could really been in the mix on this one. But this is by far our best finish and we are very happy with our 7th place finish in such a stacked field of great cars and great drivers.

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  "The best we can do is look at your lap times and work out out the average time/laps that you missed.  We'll credit you those laps.  In the case above, the team was turning an average of "X" lap times which was divided by "Y" total race time (to their pit stop and transponder exchange), yielding "Z" number of laps that should have been completed prior to the transponder exchange.  The team was reinstated with "Z" laps."


 


Cool, you are awesome. :wub:   Can you please re-calculate the case of car #801 using that formula and get back to me on how we finished?



 


At that time I can give you the address of the goat farm for forwarding of the trophy. :)


 


That would be great, John.  Thank you in advance.        


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Guest Driver #4

We had a great time, and we'll be back. Only three issues of 123 cars is great.  Thanks for all of your help and work at these event, John.  We talked to Derrick three times in the first hour of the race.  I'm not going to bring video into this issue because we are truly happy with our results (i wish we could finish every race in 7th place!).  I just chimed in because this first post sounded like this was an issue. John, I appreciate all you do for the car nuts.


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Car ran perfect (and fast) the entire race with no wasted time in the pits.  As close as you can come to running a perfect race.  Absolutely positive that at no point in the race was car #801 any more than two laps down from the leader. Transponder apparently did not work for the first two hours and Chumpcar's response was to assess a 14 lap "penalty".   After numerous "negotiations"  (the details of which consist of a confusing series of conflicting instructions and/or inconsistent statements by a certain Chump timing and scoring representative) our team was informed that the 14 lap down verdict was completely arbitrary and no effort was made to calculate a fair reconstruction using a laptime formula.   Case was closed.


 


Finished 11th.


 


Our calculations put us at least one lap ahead of the declared overall race winner at the time the checkered flag was thrown.


 


 


We had a great race and had fun and got to really have some awesome seat-time and we love Chumpcar and all that, but its hard not to dwell on how our transponder-problem circumstances were handled at the track.   How would you feel?    (hint:  don't say "well, next time get a better transponder... its the driver's responsibility..blah, blah "  -  I will come find you and tweeze out your nose-hairs) :)


 


Certainly appreciate that there is a big picture in racing and that we do this for fun and that the experiences are the reward, not the trophies.   Please do not get the impression that I am here to whine.  It just seems to me that T and S could have done a little more than they did to figure out a more fair solution to the transponder dilemma our team experienced.  Congrats to everyone who came here to race.  It was an incredible race.


 


All this aside, thank you for putting on this badass race chumpcar :)


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I ran a 3 hour race on a 1/2 mile oval in which I completed 11 laps more than the declared "winner". No transponders, laps were recorded by a member of the car's team and another person from another team. My wife was taking my laps and also recording my lap times for every lap; when the other person's team crashed they left instead of finishing taking laps, leaving only my wife. They disallowed her record keeping, claiming that she at some point checked off an extra ten laps despite her having lap times for all 261 laps, and awarded the win to the second place car. It was so obviously wrong that the crowd booed when they announced him as the winner.


 


I tried to protest but the official finishing positions weren't posted until 10:30 that evening without contacting anyone, making it a fait accompli because protests have to be made within 1/2 hour of the official posting. First paid $1000, second paid $400.


 


Not that I'm still upset about it ... ;)


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Guest justjim

We weren't aware of any transponder "issues", we have a "hard wired to the car electrics" private transponder that has never given us any issues but they have the Jacky Ickx GT30 turning a 2:08 lap on lap 220 at Daytona.  We like to think we are fast but we and everybody else knows we didn't turn a 2:08, our best lap was a 2:21, so for the record we didn't have the fast lap of the day, gremlins in the computers I say


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Turning on Race Monitor right away would help alert some teams that their laps aren't being scored.  We lost laps at Charlotte two years ago, but it was our own damned fault.  We had a new transponder which hadn't been cycled and quit after 1.5 days.  oops.  We figured it out thanks to Race Monitor and rented one.  Chump gave us some of the laps back and we were thankful.  They handled it better than could possibly be expected. 


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We had issue in the Calgary Race blamed on the install ( but totally different system ). Might be great to allow each car to drive over the transponder reciever once prior to a race to 'check' that its working. Our only race, you went out and they threw the green flag so no way to test, dont know if thats normal.


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  • Race Control

Car ran perfect (and fast) the entire race with no wasted time in the pits.  As close as you can come to running a perfect race.  Absolutely positive that at no point in the race was car #801 any more than two laps down from the leader. Transponder apparently did not work for the first two hours and Chumpcar's response was to assess a 14 lap "penalty".   After numerous "negotiations"  (the details of which consist of a confusing series of conflicting instructions and/or inconsistent statements by a certain Chump timing and scoring representative) our team was informed that the 14 lap down verdict was completely arbitrary and no effort was made to calculate a fair reconstruction using a laptime formula.   Case was closed.

 

I rarely chat post race about the events, I have too much else to do and the race is about the team stories rather than my thoughts.  You have earned an exception.

 

I do not know the details of your transponder failure nor do I need to.  My issue, and sole one I bring up here, is how you handled yourself in registration.  I understand that you didn't get the answer you liked.  When that happens, ask for me or come find me.  I am the judge and jury on all disagreements at the track.  I will give you the final answer on a complaint whether you like my decision or not.  What I will not tolerate is disrespect to my staff.  I heard from no less than four of my staff members on your tirade.  Not content with the trouble you caused at the race, you come on here to further disrespect Derrick (that is his name by the way).

 

I'm glad you enjoyed the race and appreciate you racing with us.  But in the future, take up your concerns with me.  If I ever hear of you or anyone else on the track causing my staff so much grief again, you're going home early.

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We weren't aware of any transponder "issues", we have a "hard wired to the car electrics" private transponder that has never given us any issues but they have the Jacky Ickx GT30 turning a 2:08 lap on lap 220 at Daytona.  We like to think we are fast but we and everybody else knows we didn't turn a 2:08, our best lap was a 2:21, so for the record we didn't have the fast lap of the day, gremlins in the computers I say

 

Maybe you just blew the bus stop? :rolleyes:  :)  :lol:

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I have to wonder how many chattering about transponders have ever worked T&S, especially in the pre-transponder days? Having consumed far too many weekends in the timing shack during sprint and endurance races without these fancy toys, more often than not, with limited head counts, I know the joys of building lap charts, deciphering tear sheets and dealing with the challenges of huge fields for hours of racing.  


 


Is the transponder system always perfectly accurate, no, but it is far better than the old school ways.  If it is a real concern, have a crew member do a lap chart & lap times for the entire race :rolleyes:


Having done that in the past, we're gonna let these fancy gizmos work, while we just have fun...Kudos to the ChumpTimers for the good work they do.


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Mike,  I never said anything to Derrick (I didn't want to use names on here) that was in any way disrespectful or could be considered as a "tirade".  I only spoke with him twice - tell him that I was the guy with the really young driver who looks like he's 12 both times.  We were very nice to him albeit we could have appeared a little frustrated.  Perhaps another despondent team member said something to him and I will check but it was not me.  And no, there would have been no reason for disrespect.   I really can't picture anyone on my team doing something like that but they are adults and I can't control what they do or say.


 


The whole reason for this thread is because Derrick told me that there were 20, yes 20 was the number he used, personal transponder failures at the race.  Those were his exact words.  As far as the inconsistent and conflicting statements from him go we initially heard that everything was ok, the problem might be with timing, then not to worry they might take one lap away and the laps would be calculated using laptimes.  Two hours later we learned that 14 laps were taken away without any ryhme or reason and that was just going to be the way it was.  When asked why we were told that the cars that were "in contention" would be upset if we suddenly popped up in their midst on the screen.  Really???


 


I do need to mention that I find it more than a little bit ironic that an organization which prides itself on recognizing and honoring the virtue of teams helping eachother out in the heat of the race (you even give an award for it) would offer so little assistance to a team that had a huge problem with a transponder glitch when we really needed your help. 


 


We helped anyone who needed it.  I was the one who refueled a BMW about twenty pit stalls down when he rolled in out of gas with his crew nowhere to be found.  I also jumped over pit wall with an extinguisher when the car had the fueling fire right in front of us.  For you to come on here and dismiss me as just a selfish trouble making houligan hurts my feelings somewhat just so you know.  ...but I do appreciate that you took the time to reply and will understand if you are too busy to do so again.


 


Carl Goutell    801 Lowbrow Porsche BMW e34 535i


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Nope

I know.....he just couldn't resist the BIG OVAL...he blew through the cones for the infield turn-in, went around the BIG OVAL and know one noticed because they were watching Stigdad's fireball in the hot pits.  No WAIT What, that wasn't Stigdad??  Well, then they should make those guys honorary members of the Phoenix Team...;-)

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Thinking about not even using a transponder on the car in future races. 


 


We come to race and compete with the best teams, not to win trophies or get recognition from others.  In the end we know if we won or not, we don't need some computer to tell us how well we did.  What would be the point in worrying about scoring anyway if somebody can beat you just because they built a bike and you didn't?   We race for us.  Don't race for the wrong reasons.  Glory is fleeting.  Confidence lasts a lifetime.


 


Look for the guys with no transponder at the next race.  We will  be racing you.  Ha!


 


In the 1992 running of the Rolex Daytona 24 hour race, a Nissan R91CP won overall by over 9 laps setting new race records which still stand today.  No points were awarded to the team because the car was not allowed to compete in the IMSA GTP class.  They didn't give a crap.  They just wanted to win the race. I was there and I will never forget who won that race.


 


1991_Nissan_R91CP2.jpg


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