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Ron_e

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Ron_e last won the day on May 17

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  1. @red0 is correct they used to be the same points, TBird has extra fuel. @mender is correct, TBird has extra weight to carry around. If the benchmark performance used was the Mustang at 200 points then one more glaring and commonly used factor needs to be taken into account, starting hp. Mustang came with 225, TBird with 150. Just like the MR2 it is all about starting hp for starting VPI, not what you can build the car into, right? In Champcar the TBird needs to spend 66 points to swap to the Mustang engine just to approach the same hp performance plus another 25 for the trans. So now we have Mustang at 15.4 gallons, 225 hp, 200 points. TBird at 22 gallons, 225 hp, 341 points. 141 points and extra weight is pretty pricey to eliminate one fuel stop in the same car. How much fuel does the Mustang/TBird need to run flat out? Let's say 10 gallons per hour, so 20 gallons, in stock form 18 before the +2. 18-15.4 = 2.6 gallons needed. Excess fuel just like excess points only helps so far. 141 points / 2.6 gallons = 54 points per gallon, almost 4X more than @red0's quoted 15 points per gallon that was said to be agreed upon as reasonable.
  2. Is that seriously the process? Somebody just has to start saying they are going to build a dominating non-clique car and it will get a 100 point increase? How many times has someone come on the forum to say they are going to rewrite the series with their build and how many times has it been done? If so @SpeedMaverick being the latest might want to know he is in for a 100-200 point increase pretty soon. That is the joke. Hey I heard someone is building a superfast MR2/SC300/E30/Miata! For those saying there has to be separation between the Mustang and TBird - sure, they could have lowered the Mustang along with the other 70+ cars that were lowered. Everybody is fully aware SOA is still able to eke out the wins on a hefty tire budget, more points isn't going to help much. Last time we talked they were looking to move to something else anyway.
  3. Well see therein lies the problem making TAC and the board looking like a bunch of... amateurs. TBird gets raised by a whopping unprecedented 100 points - in November I believe. It was raised just because, it has not podiumed nor led a race for about 7 years but was identified as a "loophole" car despite past performance. At the same time they lower 70+ other cars effectively double dipping it by ~150 points. I think it was mid-December after numerous e-mails where they backed it down to only raising it by 50 points. Now it is only double dipped by ~100 points. Then the Sebring race happens a couple weeks later at the old VPI for everybody and KRFL is in the lead by a whole lap ahead of three cars after 3.5 hours. The double yellow happens and they jump ahead by 3 laps on luck only. Now @E. Tyler Pedersen states, see it was proven competitive at the OLD points level and that right there justifies the double dipping that is to come, like he could see Sebring happening with three laps in hand. This means the adjustment has been made on false data, KRFL did not have laps in hand, they had luck in hand and hard work in a single lap lead. @E. Tyler Pedersen was at that race, he was one of the three cars being led by a lap only, he should know better. 50 points increase today? I'm not caring about that much anymore as more stuff is lowered and points are basically worthless now, they were a bit more important back then. It is the procedure of making a double dipping decision on false data that is offside. Along with that poor decision numerous other "loophole" cars are not double dipped. Everybody else can lead by several laps over the past years and are somehow missed. Oh, and then to top things off, @Black Magic states with a cam and "free" valvetrain it can make enough hp to toy with the field, even though it hasn't in the last 7 years. It was also later decided that valvetrain is not free with a cam change, as it always has been. That is the second massive piece of false information and another mistaken 50 points.
  4. OK, so once a car is proven competitive with a lead of a single lap THEN it gets slapped with 100 points, that is the procedure as of last year? Just so I know to never lead a race, not sure how to ever win then. Pretty sure other "loophole" cars have had a lead of one lap... MR2, SC300, E30, Miata, Eclipse, Porsche... how much did those cars go up? E. Tyler Pedersen 3,457 Report post Posted September 27 Ron, The first year TAC was introduced (August 2018) they went through all the rules and VPIs pretty extensively. That's why the members wanted an advisory committee for these issues. They suggested to the board what VPIs should be. We trusted the TAC and I believe took all but one or two maybe? I can't remember I have slept and drank some beer since. Kids for Life Racing had Sebring 2018 in hand by laps, but they broke so it's been proven it's a competitive car.
  5. Screwed as in the past, yes with the blinders on. The problem is the future, as @E. Tyler Pedersen said it got hammered with 100 points because a team dared to actually lead a race that one time, not win, just lead with the car. That is a massive problem, dare to just lead a race again with the car and how many more points will it get? Yeah, I am going to keep bitching about that little issue. At Sebring KRFL led by a single freaking lap 3.5 hours into the race. There was an extended yellow from 3.5 into the race, if you pitted in the first half for fuel the field was going at a pretty good pace, if you pitted in the second half the field was crawling. KRFL lucked out and made the call to pit for fuel in the second half. After that lucky call and Parts Badger dropping out (they were part of the cause of the yellow) KRFL led by 3 laps. One of the cars they were leading by 3 laps was Crank Yankers, just saying. Over the next 1.5 hours KRFL continued to pace Damson, Jacky Ickx, Crank Yankers by 3 laps, shortly after the engine on KRFL failed. Zero evidence in the first 3.5 hours that they had the luxury to run the car at 90% and pace the field. The moral of the story is do not ever lead a race by more than a lap or you will get hit with 100 points penalty. Oh wait a minute, anybody else is allowed to lead a race by one and even multiple laps. Just don't EVER do it in a TBird. How do you deal with that? That is the big picture.
  6. The safe bet is to ensure it somehow messes up the TBird again, then most everyone will be happy.
  7. New engine showed up today, not sure but it looks quite a bit wider than what we currently have in the car. Oh well, good thing it says "Ford 5.0" on the invoice.
  8. Those other ones didn't cause Mike to wear a suit, threaten to expel any member speaking ill of the series, board members to publicly state opposing opinions making the board look fractured, multiple threads and pages over one single component common to most every car. A component that is very likely non-stock in every competitive car. Compare that to a single car proven to be competitive and on the podium by multiple teams retaining its advantage after the rules are changed to its benefit.
  9. The level of mental gymnastics being performed after one of the non-clique cars gains an interpretation advantage is stunning. Everyone from the membership, tech, TAC, president, and board members has been involved - it looks like the entire series has turned itself inside out to change the rules to remove the interpretation advantage. Compare that to a clique car like the SC300 that gets the rules changed to keep an interpretation advantage like flipping the trunk lid or the MR2 that briefly had its VPI increased or the E30 weight adjustment. Simply stunning.
  10. If I made impound and another team or tech found an unclaimed part I would hang my head in shame and expect a DQ for the weekend. I would feel I deserve the DQ. Bad at math? Find someone on the team that is better. I keep a spreadsheet of all of the modifications so when I fill out subsequent tech sheets I am not trying to remember from last year, we have 250 points to play with so it is a pretty lengthy list that tech struggles to put on one page of the log book. FYI in every spreadsheet there is a handy formula "= sum(A2:A17)" that can confirm your math as you transfer it to paper. Have I confirmed my sway bar diameters? Yes and many other things. Everything bolts across 4/V6/V8/turbo/supercharged/Mustang/Thunderbird/Cougar but many models had unique springs and struts. Get your tech sheet correct or expect a DQ for the weekend if caught. If caught a second time then expect to tech at every race for at least a year.
  11. You mean like when the no repurposing rule made a brief appearance? If it functioned as a fixed point item then it was charged the fixed item points - until the SC300 needed a rear spoiler via a flipped trunk for free because it wasn’t winning enough yet. Like caster/camber plates? They are points.
  12. No that is not the rule. The current rule is you can run any rate you want if the dimension is similar. The rule could easily changed back to points for a non-OE spring rate. Watch any car go through a corner and it is pretty easy to tell if it has stock or race springs. Want to protest? A simple test rig will tell the difference between 150 and 250 lbs/in quite easily.
  13. How about the opposite? Make non-OE springs points again, saves everyone even more time and money.
  14. Funny thing. When I went to the parts counter at Ford to order a 5.0 engine they asked if I wanted that with push rods or DOHC. I said well if it is the same part name, “5.0”, give me the DOHC of course.
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