Gearhead_42 Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 I swear I remember there being a question on "best brake fluid" recently, but couldn't find it, so here's a new thread. Found this handy chart with brake fluid boiling point comparisons, wanted to share! https://www.lelandwest.com/brake-fluid-comparison-chart.cfm Sortable by DBP, WBP, $/oz, $/bottle, etc etc... The best bang for the buck seems to be right around the "Motul RBF 600" level of performance, but that will all depend just how hot your brakes run. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBgotM Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 6 minutes ago, Gearhead_42 said: I swear I remember there being a question on "best brake fluid" recently, but couldn't find it, so here's a new thread. Found this handy chart with brake fluid boiling point comparisons, wanted to share! https://www.lelandwest.com/brake-fluid-comparison-chart.cfm Sortable by DBP, WBP, $/oz, $/bottle, etc etc... The best bang for the buck seems to be right around the "Motul RBF 600" level of performance, but that will all depend just how hot your brakes run. RBF 600 is what I have used in every car I take on track. It seems to strike a good balance, and I have never had an issue with it. I have had cars where the rotors were severely blued and heat checked, but the fluid never gave up. I have seen multiple cars boil the lesser fluids, and going higher than the RBF 600 climbs in price very quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drKorf Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 I belong to an email list where one of the members tested various brake fluids by measuring their boiling points. The interesting thing was not brand comparisons, but environment comparisons. Brake fluid left in the car eventually ends up lowering its boiling point. No surprise there. But if you put the cap on the bottle, brake fluid doesn't degrade even after 5 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremsen Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 Couple issues with this chart is that it seems to take manufacturer's stated WBP/DBP figures and those figures are often not 100% true (I'm sure Dr.Korf could verify that). I've seen independent brake fluid testing that shows many of the claimed numbers aren't representative of the actual product. Secondly, it doesn't list any other fluid performance factor. Compressibility, viscosity, vapor resistance and recovery, etc all play a part in how a racing fluid performs inside the brake system, which they do state in the article underneath the chart. Compressibility is a big factor and the differences can be pretty dramatic (I found out first hand after swapping fluids for something a little cheaper at one point). Also, for those with ABS, viscosity is a factor that should be considered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Andrew D Johnson Posted June 21, 2017 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 ATE Blue at $10 a liter \n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Andrew D Johnson Posted June 21, 2017 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 also, bremsflüssigkeit is such a german looking word. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gearhead_42 Posted June 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, red0 said: also, bremsflüssigkeit is such a german looking word. I agree with you, up to the limits of a street vehicle, it's tough to beat the ATE. the balance of wet/dry is amazing at the price, and I run it in all my self maintained street vehicles. the RBF really does do just that much better in the racecar, even @ 3x the price. I'm curious to try the Wilwood EXP, specs look good and it's only about $5 more a pint vs the Motul. Free samples @Wilwood ? Edited June 21, 2017 by Gearhead_42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Andrew D Johnson Posted June 21, 2017 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 18 minutes ago, Gearhead_42 said: I agree with you, up to the limits of a street vehicle, it's tough to beat the ATE. the balance of wet/dry is amazing at the price, and I run it in all my self maintained street vehicles. the RBF really does do just that much better in the racecar, even @ 3x the price. I'm curious to try the Wilwood EXP, specs look good and it's only about $5 more a pint vs the Motul. Free samples @Wilwood ? When it comes to brakes, we go blue. Hawk blue pads with Ate blue fluid. I like the combination. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi_Im_Will Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 7 minutes ago, red0 said: When it comes to brakes, we go blue. Hawk blue pads with Ate blue fluid. I like the combination. Where do you acquire Super Blue? It has been banned for sale in the US since 2013. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Andrew D Johnson Posted June 21, 2017 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, Hi_Im_Will said: Where do you acquire Super Blue? It has been banned for sale in the US since 2013. I acquire it from the shelf the case sits on, and I bought it in 2014 or 2015. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Andrew D Johnson Posted June 21, 2017 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 Also, I think type 200 is the same boiling points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pintodave Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 We run the Wilwood EXP, but I have nothing to compare it to really. I don't think we've had a brake fluid related issue, and we usually heat check rotors after one event (off-the-shelf rotors + a heavy car + aggressive pads + 14 hours = unhappy rotors). Bang for the buck the Wilwood seems to be good (~40% cheaper than SRF). I think we had to use some Motul at the track once (in the Lincoln - hello brake heat) and did not notice any difference good or bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginerd Posted June 22, 2017 Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 4 hours ago, Gearhead_42 said: I agree with you, up to the limits of a street vehicle, it's tough to beat the ATE. the balance of wet/dry is amazing at the price, and I run it in all my self maintained street vehicles. the RBF really does do just that much better in the racecar, even @ 3x the price. I'm curious to try the Wilwood EXP, specs look good and it's only about $5 more a pint vs the Motul. We ran Motul 600 in the e30 for a couple years, but tested the ATE recently and found it to have a "sufficiently high boiling point to be acceptable". So we switched fully to ATE since it is so much cheaper. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Infiniti Posted June 22, 2017 Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 We the only ones running this $10-14 a quart , why, because on shelf @ parts store. http://germanoem.ca/dot4-brake-fluid-pentosin-super-dot4-1l.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators E. Tyler Pedersen Posted June 22, 2017 Administrators Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 This is a good topic to dicuss and on that note I just ran NAPA Dot 4 this past weekend and NCM and had no issues. I usually use Castrol SRF, but forgot to bleed the new fluid in for the race. I will be putting my Castrol SRF for the next race at BIR. It is expensive but it's the best brake fluid I have ever used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Andrew D Johnson Posted June 22, 2017 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 10 hours ago, Team Infiniti said: We the only ones running this $10-14 a quart , why, because on shelf @ parts store. http://germanoem.ca/dot4-brake-fluid-pentosin-super-dot4-1l.html We have used it before, but prefer brake fluid in the color blue. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mender Posted June 22, 2017 Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 I use Wilwood 570, no issues. Every now and then I flush the old stuff out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee NigelStu Posted June 22, 2017 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 Type 200 and Blue are the same fluid, different dye color (despite the chart showing different wet). IIRC , there was some issue with toxicity of the blue dye or something like that.... ironic. I used to run both since it made it so much easier to do a full flush of the fluid - pump until the color changed. Decent fluid for lighter cars, attractive price point. For those that do frequent brake bleeds, dry boiling point and Compressability are key. Castrol SRF is incredible for response to pedal pressure changes, may be overkill for the fairly soft suspension setups and relatively low-grip tires that are run in Chump. Prospeed RS683 is up there as well for compressability - not to SRF level, but better than Type 200. I have found Motul 600 to be an excellent balance and works well in this type of racing / OTDs / HPDEs Those that like to only touch brakes 1-2 times per year, wet boiling point is most important, but the highest BP that you're cheap-ass budget allows. What I have found is that the fluids with lower wet and larger delta between dry/wet boiling points are more likely to have more compressability (more pedal stroke needed), especially once fluid has been heated and/or it has been in the car longer. Indication that that particular fluid pulls more moisture in or has more air mixed into the formula from the start. This would be why some fluids can keep pedal feeling like a rock for a long time, vs. one that starts to get soft half-way through a race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morganf Posted June 22, 2017 Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 43 minutes ago, NigelStu said: Type 200 and Blue are the same fluid, different dye color (despite the chart showing different wet). IIRC , there was some issue with toxicity of the blue dye or something like that.... ironic. Not toxic just confusing to the "average" car owner who might think blue means washer fluid. "The specific color requirement for brake fluid in the standard is to permit easy differentiation of brake fluids from other types of motor vehicle fluids before they are placed in the vehicle. If an incompatible fluid is put into a motor vehicle system, it could lead to damage or failure of that system." Code of Federal Regulations FMVSS 116, Effective 1-1-68, amended 3-1-72. S5.1.14 Fluid color. Brake fluid and hydraulic system mineral oil shall be of the color indicated: DOT 3, DOT 4, AND DOT 5.1 NON-SBBF—COLORLESS TO AMBER. DOT 5 SBBF—PURPLE. HYDRAULIC SYSTEM MINERAL OIL—GREEN. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEE DEE Posted June 22, 2017 Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 I have 4 - 1 liter cans of Ate Super Blue Racing fluid I can bring to VIR . $10 per can Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremsen Posted June 22, 2017 Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 (edited) Wet boiling point is measure with 3.7% moisture which takes several years to reach in a sealed brake system. Figure about 1% per year, in Florida, for a good DOT4. If you flush the system annually WBP isn't a concern. I do find it amusing that many of you don't think twice about spending all this money on tires, full synthetic oils, brake pads, etc that burn up in a race....but you bargain shop your brake fluid that costs about $50 (for the best fluid) and lasts an entire season. Edited June 22, 2017 by Bremsen 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewheelerZ Posted June 22, 2017 Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 4 minutes ago, Bremsen said: I do find it amusing that many of you don't think twice about spending all this money on tires, full synthetic oils, brake pads, etc that burn up in a race....but you bargain shop your brake fluid that costs about $50 (for the best fluid) and lasts an entire season. Wait... you guys don't bleed/flush before every race weekend? We at least give a bit of a flush to make sure the fluid still flows with no bubbles and such. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremsen Posted June 22, 2017 Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 12 minutes ago, thewheelerZ said: Wait... you guys don't bleed/flush before every race weekend? We at least give a bit of a flush to make sure the fluid still flows with no bubbles and such. I do a quick bleed before each race and an annual flush. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gearhead_42 Posted June 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 3 hours ago, Bremsen said: I do find it amusing that many of you don't think twice about spending all this money on tires, full synthetic oils, brake pads, etc that burn up in a race....but you bargain shop your brake fluid that costs about $50 (for the best fluid) and lasts an entire season. I "bargain shop" *everything*... which doesn't necessarily mean I just buy the cheapest stuff. Weigh every aspect of every part and fluid for bang for the buck. Bargain shopping is the only way I can afford to keep racing. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Infiniti Posted June 23, 2017 Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 10 hours ago, thewheelerZ said: Wait... you guys don't bleed/flush before every race weekend? We at least give a bit of a flush to make sure the fluid still flows with no bubbles and such. We flush a qt through every race... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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