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How much is Too much? (Weight Reduction)


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Hey Guys, Working on our 2004 Crown Victoria For the Chump 24 at VIR.

 

Since the car is a Frame car and not a Unibody I feel I can remove tons of weight and still be safe. 

My question is, Is there a limit? Also Do we have to run a Trunk? Or can I just Replace it with some sheet metal? Do I need to run Bumper covers? 

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You don't need bumper covers if you don't want.

 

There is (or maybe was) a rule that said 60% of the body had to be stock.

 

Gut the crap out of that thing!

 

You can use "alternate materials" for the car.  You just need to account for them in your logbook (plastic, steel, aluminum, etc....  all cost points).

 

I would be thinking about cutting those B pillars out of the car.....

 

There is (or maybe was) a rule that said you can't have a silhouette car.  Meaning that the body panels can't be just attached to a chassis minimally like a Nascar.

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6 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

 

There is (or maybe was) a rule that said you can't have a silhouette car.  Meaning that the body panels can't be just attached to a chassis minimally like a Nascar.

That sounds very open to interpretation. 

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36 minutes ago, Bandit said:

That sounds very open to interpretation. 

Yep.  Tread lightly or you may get smacked down.   Run anything iffy past phil.

15 minutes ago, DEE DEE said:

So the entire body can be removed?

If you leave 60%, yes.

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2 hours ago, DEE DEE said:

We used to acid dip the body, that's why I asked.  

I'm quite sure the 60% rule was to be applied to surface area of body / body panels, not to the weight / thickness of those parts.

 

So for instance... cut off the roof, you're probably fine.

Cut off the roof and remove fenders and the trunk lid and you have probably removed more than 40% and would be in violation.

 

And if somehow you are able to take out 50% of the thickness of the body panels with acid (this sounds like madness to me) you would still be fine.

 

Quote

9.5.2. Each car entered must have a minimum of SIXTY PERCENT (60%) of the total ORIGINAL body work and panels on the car.

Edited by enginerd
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7 hours ago, enginerd said:

 

 

 

 

 

And if somehow you are able to take out 50% of the thickness of the body panels with acid (this sounds like madness to me) you would still be fine.

Tell that to Roger Penske.  I had one of the IROC  Camaros.  Are you familiar with the IROC series?

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39 minutes ago, DEE DEE said:

Tell that to Roger Penske.  I had one of the IROC  Camaros.  Are you familiar with the IROC series?

Yep, the issue with acid dipping is that it is difficult to control exactly how much material comes off the base metal.  In addition, it is next to impossible to get the acid out of every crevice or if you do (by giving it another bath to neutralize the acid), you can't get paint to the newly exposed metal.  

 

As an aside, I seem to recall from The Unfair Advantage that they even tried acid dipping the engine blocks to lighten them up.  

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11 hours ago, Bandit said:

That sounds very open to interpretation. 

Within the limits of the rules, its very open.

 

  • Keep at least 60% of the original body panels
  • Those panels need to be the right shape & self supporting, not held there by fabricated means (or else points added)
  • Doors cannot be removed (can be replaced with same material, equal thickness)
  • No windshield = must have non-vented hood
  • If you remove too much structure and have to reinforce it, then those tubes/reinforcements cost you points.
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You don't have to run a trunk. The Lincolnfelter Racing Mark VIII Lincoln that runs in the SE region is a great example. It's got no A-pillars, windshield, roof or deck lid. 

When you're behind that car you can see straight through to the dash, lol.

S. 

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I hate that 60% rule.  Can't stand seeing cars on track that don't at least look like a decent race car.  Lighten all those panels as much as you want but keep them all on the car  Couple cans of Rustoleum  and  the car looks great from 10'.  Helps improve the overall image of our club and the perceived professionalism of our car builders/drivers. .

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4 minutes ago, Boy Blunder said:

I hate that 60% rule.  Can't stand seeing cars on track that don't at least look like a decent race car.  Lighten all those panels as much as you want but keep them all on the car  Couple cans of Rustoleum  and  the car looks great from 10'.  Helps improve the overall image of our club and the perceived professionalism of our car builders/drivers. .

 

You sound like the rest of my team when I showed up to COTA with a hoodless, trunkless, bumperless, lightless Civic. Apparently looks matter more than going fast to some people :) 

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9 minutes ago, Boy Blunder said:

I hate that 60% rule.  Can't stand seeing cars on track that don't at least look like a decent race car.  Lighten all those panels as much as you want but keep them all on the car  Couple cans of Rustoleum  and  the car looks great from 10'.  Helps improve the overall image of our club and the perceived professionalism of our car builders/drivers. .

Regardless of the rule, cars which are missing body panels are few and far between. The general build quality and appearance has been very nice in recent seasons.

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10 hours ago, jmabarone said:

 

As an aside, I seem to recall from The Unfair Advantage that they even tried acid dipping the engine blocks to lighten them up.  

 

40 pounds off the block comes to mind from the same read. That was on a SBC for the Trans Am cars. Legend has it the blocks ended up getting put in everyday cars on the line as they weren't pulled off after machining.

 

Speaking of the TA cars, the Lightweight '67 was around 2500 pounds. And the car with the vinyl top? That was added to cover up the waves in the too thin roof.

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17 minutes ago, Bandit said:

 

40 pounds off the block comes to mind from the same read. That was on a SBC for the Trans Am cars. Legend has it the blocks ended up getting put in everyday cars on the line as they weren't pulled off after machining.

 

Speaking of the TA cars, the Lightweight '67 was around 2500 pounds. And the car with the vinyl top? That was added to cover up the waves in the too thin roof.

 

Is that the one even Donohue said he was kind of skittish about getting in because it was so thin?

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13 minutes ago, karman1970 said:

 

Is that the one even Donohue said he was kind of skittish about getting in because it was so thin?

 

I believe so. That's the downside of dipping a unibody. Gets thin everywhere, so mounting a cage is even problematic.

 

The car exists, as much as old race cars do, but is about legal weight now due to panel replacements and such over the years. About 2900 iirc.

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10 hours ago, JBgotM said:

Within the limits of the rules, its very open.

 

  • Keep at least 60% of the original body panels
  • Those panels need to be the right shape & self supporting, not held there by fabricated means (or else points added)
  • Doors cannot be removed (can be replaced with same material, equal thickness)
  • No windshield = must have non-vented hood
  • If you remove too much structure and have to reinforce it, then those tubes/reinforcements cost you points.

Picking up a oem Monte body Thursday as I figured a complete 5 Star street stock bod would be outside the spirit of the rules and deemed "detrimental to sport of Chumpcar racing".

 

 

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2 hours ago, karman1970 said:

 

You sound like the rest of my team when I showed up to COTA with a hoodless, trunkless, bumperless, lightless Civic. Apparently looks matter more than going fast to some people :) 

Being fast and looking good doesn't have to be mutually exclusive.

 

See PintoDave's ride as an example.

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Just like everyone else said - go nuts on that thing. 

 

Double layers in the front fenders (triple in some spots of the Lincoln...), brackets, tabs, core support, inner 1/4 structure, thin up the B-pillar structure (provided your cage provides ample coverage and you are not giving up any safety or intrusion protection), trunk floors (as long as you have the drivers cabin sealed off), skin it to win it baby.

 

That is the beauty of the full frame car. You start skinning up that stuff on a unibody car and you start saying ehhhhhhhh.

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