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Just curious for some feedback and open discussion.

 

 

What's everyone's thought of the podium structure?

 

1-5 Overall trophies

1st in class trophies

 

Who feels this structure is acceptable or needs changing?

 

I'll be the first to say 

 

We have finished countless times in P2 to feel short changed... so much so... that the first time we finished P1... I didn't even celebrate the checker and waited for the hardware in hand before even cracking a smile.

 

More so this weekend after battling 24 Freaking hours with crashes and breakdowns to even finish was a miracle.. .let alone climbing the ladder for 19hrs executing perfect stops and strategy to finish P2 only to see the disappointment on my teams faces to not be rewarded/recognized for such a battle and effort.

 

24 Freaking hours of heat, exhaustion, blinding corners and torrential downpour... only to stand at podium to clap for others.

 

95 car field.. couldn't make an exception for a 24hr race to hand out a few more participation awards? Bitter? perhaps?   I'm used to getting shafted, time and time again.. but to see my drivers sad and puzzled....  I think I might have to take my talent pool elsewhere.

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Problem is chumpcar doesn't really have classes. Some people are convinced there is which led to my problems at mosport, with one individual wanting my car out of class B.

 

If the Chump were to adopt a more founded class structure than yes, there should a P1, P2 and P3 per class. As one of those classes will also have the overall win as well. 

 

You oficially finished 2nd in class right ken?

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Yes.. 2nd in class.

 

If there's no class structure... WTF are the letters on the door for?

 

I remember your situation... but we won't go there with the finer details... as it was just asinine of an unnamed someone

 

but on a general overview of the class..... wait.. now you got me confused about the classing

 

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I'm pretty happy with the 1-5 overall and first in class as is - don't want to just hand out trophies to everybody.  However, in a 95 car field, there's room to give out a few more.  

 

I'd do something like this:

 

4 or less cars in class: 

no trophies

 

5-20 cars in class:

trophy to winner

 

Over 20 cars in class:

trophies to top 3

 

Entire field under 30 cars:

Trophies to top 3 overall

 

Entire field over 30:

Trophies to top 5 overall

 

Entire field over 100:

Trophies to top 10 overall

 

 

Edit to add:

 

I totally understand the classes don't mean much, and I personally don't care if I win the class or not.  But it's really nice to have something to show sponsors, as long as it has some sort of relevance.  Sure, 3rd in class C may not mean anything most of the time, but against 20 other cars, it's worth posting a cool pic of a predator trophy to facebook and asking for more parts from your sponsors

Edited by Hi_Im_Will
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1 minute ago, Hi_Im_Will said:

I'm pretty happy with the 1-5 overall and first in class as is - don't want to just hand out trophies to everybody.  However, in a 95 car field, there's room to give out a few more.  

 

I'd do something like this:

 

4 or less cars in class: 

no trophies

 

5-20 cars in class:

trophy to winner

 

Over 20 cars in class:

trophies to top 3

 

Entire field under 30 cars:

Trophies to top 3 overall

 

Entire field over 30:

Trophies to top 5 overall

 

Entire field over 100:

Trophies to top 10 overall

 

That's an improvement.

 

But I mean... what racing organization doesn't hand out 1-3? It's an odd format for chump.

 

Again... topic for open discussion.

 

AER??   WRL???  How's their format? anyone know? Curious.

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15 minutes ago, KSRD said:

Just curious for some feedback and open discussion.

 

 

What's everyone's thought of the podium structure?

 

1-5 Overall trophies

1st in class trophies

 

Who feels this structure is acceptable or needs changing?

 

I'll be the first to say 

 

We have finished countless times in P2 to feel short changed... so much so... that the first time we finished P1... I didn't even celebrate the checker and waited for the hardware in hand before even cracking a smile.

 

More so this weekend after battling 24 Freaking hours with crashes and breakdowns to even finish was a miracle.. .let alone climbing the ladder for 19hrs executing perfect stops and strategy to finish P2 only to see the disappointment on my teams faces to not be rewarded/recognized for such a battle and effort.

 

24 Freaking hours of heat, exhaustion, blinding corners and torrential downpour... only to stand at podium to clap for others.

 

95 car field.. couldn't make an exception for a 24hr race to hand out a few more participation awards? Bitter? perhaps?   I'm used to getting shafted, time and time again.. but to see my drivers sad and puzzled....  I think I might have to take my talent pool elsewhere.

 

Bimmerline got 2nd, and they were recognized for it. 

The 1-5 podium structure is good. I am not a fan of the class trophies, I wish they would go away. 

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1 minute ago, KSRD said:

 

That's an improvement.

 

But I mean... what racing organization doesn't hand out 1-3? It's an odd format for chump.

 

Again... topic for open discussion.

 

AER??   WRL???  How's their format? anyone know? Curious.

 

WRL is classed base racing. It is completely different than chump. 

 

WRL does a very good job with class based racing, that being said I like single class racing more for endurance events. 

 

AER is some lame bracket racing shenanigans. 

 

A 1-5 podium and awards for Chump is perfect IMO. 

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From my recollection, the classes were started as a way to separate the sprint races a few years ago. They basically kept them as a way to give out more prizes/trophies

 

For endurance racing, it appears that they are pretty arbitrary.  Personally, I am out there racing for the overall.  No matter how many times I tell my team that, they keep telling me over the radio " you are 2nd/3rd/10th in C class"!

 

Though, if I was able to post up a picture on here, I could post up the shot of my Dad holding the 1st in class trophy.  He was pretty friggin happy!  So whatever floats your boat.

 

To answer your question, as an arbitrary class system Im fine with 1 trophy per class.  If we changed the classing, id be fine with more.  Will's suggestion also makes sense.

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9 minutes ago, KSRD said:

We have finished countless times in P2 to feel short changed... so much so... that the first time we finished P1... I didn't even celebrate the checker and waited for the hardware in hand before even cracking a smile.

 

More so this weekend after battling 24 Freaking hours with crashes and breakdowns to even finish was a miracle.. .let alone climbing the ladder for 19hrs executing perfect stops and strategy to finish P2 only to see the disappointment on my teams faces to not be rewarded/recognized for such a battle and effort.

 

24 Freaking hours of heat, exhaustion, blinding corners and torrential downpour... only to stand at podium to clap for others.

 

95 car field.. couldn't make an exception for a 24hr race to hand out a few more participation awards? Bitter? perhaps?   I'm used to getting shafted, time and time again.. but to see my drivers sad and puzzled....  I think I might have to take my talent pool elsewhere.

As M4L said, we don't really have classes. The class trophies are just a nice perk for a 'race within a race'... like "hey I beat all the other miatas and hondas" or "I won the 'BMW class' (C), even though I lost to that pesky RBank Honda!" I would agree with a bigger class podium if we did have classes and it was designed such that each class was expected to perform in a certain way (like with Lemons.. A class are the real race cars, C are unlikely to finish, so it is unfair if C competed against A). ChumpCar is balanced with the intent that any car on the list has the potential to perform at the pointy end of the field... we have seen winners from all 4 classes this year.

 

On a more general note, why are you gauging success and enjoyment entirely on whether or not you carry away hardware? Perhaps I'm an oddball, but any time we leave the track after racing all day and the car still running, I'm grinning from ear to ear. Getting a cool trophy is just icing on the cake, but has a small effect on my overall enjoyment of the weekend. The real prize for me is the fun of wheel to wheel racing with my friends, being able to take the same car back to the track at the next event, and learning so we can do even better next time.

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4 minutes ago, red0 said:

 

Bimmerline got 2nd, and they were recognized for it. 

The 1-5 podium structure is good. I am not a fan of the class trophies, I wish they would go away. 

 

 

So Lemans should do away with classing? and just go 1-5 podium?

 

So what's our class structure and points system used for? So a Class D car is equivalent to a Class A car? no classing structure needed? 

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11 minutes ago, Hi_Im_Will said:

I'm pretty happy with the 1-5 overall and first in class as is - don't want to just hand out trophies to everybody.  However, in a 95 car field, there's room to give out a few more.  

 

Then why not give awards for 1-7?

 

Why does someone who finished 78th deserve an award because they ran a 5.0L engine? I won class D bro.............

Just now, KSRD said:

So Lemans should do away with classing? and just go 1-5 podium?

 

Lemans has classes. We all build cars to the same rule book, hence no classes. 

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Interesting topic,. a few thoughts

 

1. As far as I know the classes are in the rule book and exist.

2. They are not perfect for sure but better than nothing.  

3. Some don't care for the class idea.  (Mostly they only drive the fastest cars)  However, many like the classes and pay close attention throughout the race and are understandably very proud of class wins.   (We like classes and pay attention to them, as well as do our  est to get into the top 5 overall.  (Someday all the stars are going to align and we're going to win dammit). 

4. I agree there could be more recognition of the class performance,. Trophy for both days,not just one for the weekend would be good. I'd change Will's schedule a little.  I'd do class winner trophy from 3 to 15 cars. Above 15 in a class 1st and 2nd get trophies.   I think overall fields above 75 could trophy for the top 10.  

5. A trophy or not a trophy (even though they are cool) should not in my opinion have you in a state of mind to leave a series.  

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Just now, thewheelerZ said:

 

Per the rules, if it's 500 points or less, yep!

 

i love that about Chumpcar. 

 Sure.. the value pts basis... 

 

but you're telling me a Class D 5.0L Mustang is equivalent to a Class A 1.8L Honda???  Perhaps we should do away with the tech sheet and just run what we brung.... I'm down with that... after I throw in my shelved turbo kit.

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Just now, KSRD said:

 Sure.. the value pts basis... 

 

but you're telling me a Class D 5.0L Mustang is equivalent to a Class A 1.8L Honda???  Perhaps we should do away with the tech sheet and just run what we brung.... I'm down with that... after I throw in my shelved turbo kit.

 

Yes, they are equivalent! That is the point of the rules with different starting values and points per upgrade. 

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3 minutes ago, JDChristianson said:

Interesting topic,. a few thoughts

 

1. As far as I know the classes are in the rule book and exist.

2. They are not perfect for sure but better than nothing.  

3. Some don't care for the class idea.  (Mostly they only drive the fastest cars)  However, many like the classes and pay close attention throughout the race and are understandably very proud of class wins.   (We like classes and pay attention to them, as well as do our  est to get into the top 5 overall.  (Someday all the stars are going to align and we're going to win dammit). 

4. I agree there could be more recognition of the class performance,. Trophy for both days,not just one for the weekend would be good. I'd change Will's schedule a little.  I'd do class winner trophy from 3 to 15 cars. Above 15 in a class 1st and 2nd get trophies.   I think overall fields above 75 could trophy for the top 10.  

5. A trophy or not a trophy (even though they are cool) should not in my opinion have you in a state of mind to leave a series.  

 

Everyone runs for their own enjoyment and purpose.. Some run just for fun.. some run for the hardware.. I'm somewhere in between.

 

Chump has always been a stepping stone and learning grounds for me for future endeavours.. Not saying to leave the series, but just saying I'll do what is necessary to keep my team happy.

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5 minutes ago, KSRD said:

 Sure.. the value pts basis... 

 

but you're telling me a Class D 5.0L Mustang is equivalent to a Class A 1.8L Honda???  Perhaps we should do away with the tech sheet and just run what we brung.... I'm down with that... after I throw in my shelved turbo kit.

 

Equivalent?  Not exactly.  But at the end of a 7/8/12/24 hour race, yeah, the rules try the best they can to make each car have a shot.

 

If you were to look at the current classes without knowing anything, you assume that D class cars are the big dog/fast cars/winners and A and B cars can fight for the scraps.  If that's the case, question: is Junction afraid of running heads up with a Mustang?:ph34r:;)

Edited by thewheelerZ
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9 minutes ago, thewheelerZ said:

From my recollection, the classes were started as a way to separate the sprint races a few years ago. They basically kept them as a way to give out more prizes/trophies

 

Correct, the purpose of the classes was because the rules were designed to have parity in an endurance race. A car with 400hp and an 8 gallon tank might be 300 points because it has to pit every 45 minutes, but could smoke everyone in a 25 minutes sprint. 

 

The purpose of the classes was to help with the sprint racing only. 

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1 minute ago, red0 said:

 

Then why not give awards for 1-7?

 

Why does someone who finished 78th deserve an award because they ran a 5.0L engine? I won class D bro.............

 

It's purely an excuse to hand out more 1st, 2nd, and 3rd trophies.  There's plenty of contingencies available for 2nd and 3rd overall, and class podiums are easy to brag about to your friends, mom, potential sponsors, annoyed girlfriend, people you're trying to get to pay to drive your jalopy, etc.  It's all about making the racing easier to justify for the teams that aren't on the overall podium - if they can say they finished 2nd, that may be what gets that rental driver to sign up, or that friend new to chump to try it, or gets that little bit of Winding Road contingency money to help pay for safety equipment they otherwise couldn't afford.

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3 minutes ago, KSRD said:

 Sure.. the value pts basis... 

 

but you're telling me a Class D 5.0L Mustang is equivalent to a Class A 1.8L Honda???  Perhaps we should do away with the tech sheet and just run what we brung.... I'm down with that... after I throw in my shelved turbo kit.

I have seen a lot more Class A Hondas towards the top of the podium and on the top of it, this year than Mustangs or class D cars in general.....just sayin

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1 minute ago, thewheelerZ said:

If you were to look at the current classes without knowing anything, you assume that D class cars are the big dog/fast cars/winners and A and B cars can fight for the scraps.  If that's the case, question: is Junction afraid of running heads up with a Mustang?

 

 

Junction fears nothing other than being Blitzkrieged a 3rd time

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