mender Posted February 15, 2018 Report Share Posted February 15, 2018 We purchased Curtwill's Scrap Attack Honda Civic to have some fun with and to add a few new members to the team. I'm going through the paperwork to sort out what the TCV is for this car and I have a question about the VPi of the base/swap combination. The swap calculator shows three choices for civics that year: 1. Civic/CRX/delSol (D15) 2. Civic/CRX/delSol (D16 non-VTEC) 3. Civic/CRX/delSol (D16 VTEC) The base car, #1, which is the car I have is 150 pts; the other two are 200 points. The B18B engine that was swapped in is non-VTEC: does that affect which selection to make? The Honda alphabet soup car and engine codes are starting to make sense but ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Andrew D Johnson Posted February 15, 2018 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted February 15, 2018 (edited) 24 minutes ago, mender said: We purchased Curtwill's Scrap Attack Honda Civic to have some fun with and to add a few new members to the team. I'm going through the paperwork to sort out what the TCV is for this car and I have a question about the VPi of the base/swap combination. The swap calculator shows three choices for civics that year: 1. Civic/CRX/delSol (D15) 2. Civic/CRX/delSol (D16 non-VTEC) 3. Civic/CRX/delSol (D16 VTEC) The base car, #1, which is the car I have is 150 pts; the other two are 200 points. The B18B engine that was swapped in is non-VTEC: does that affect which selection to make? The Honda alphabet soup car and engine codes are starting to make sense but ... I will gladly help you out with this. You did not post any details about the car, but I think I saw a picture of it being an EG Hatch. That means that the highest trim of the car was the Civic Si - which will need to be used as the starting value. The D16Z6 - SOHC Vtec engine was the Civic Si engine from 92-95 . It looks like the starting VPI is 200 and the swap adds 50 points. The B18B swap into an EG is super cheap, so you will be under $1500 for the swap and should incur no further value from the swap. You probably have a trans swap from an Integra too so that will be 25 points on top of the 50 for the motor swap. Edited February 15, 2018 by red0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDChristianson Posted February 15, 2018 Report Share Posted February 15, 2018 15 minutes ago, red0 said: I will gladly help you out with this. You did not post any details about the car, but I think I saw a picture of it being an EG Hatch. That means that the highest trim of the car was the Civic Si - which will need to be used as the starting value. The D16Z6 - SOHC Vtec engine was the Civic Si engine from 92-95 . It looks like the starting VPI is 200 and the swap adds 50 points. The B18B swap into an EG is super cheap, so you will be under $1500 for the swap and should incur no further value from the swap. You probably have a trans swap from an Integra too so that will be 25 points on top of the 50 for the motor swap. You forgot the need for new non cheaty gas tank 😎 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginerd Posted February 15, 2018 Report Share Posted February 15, 2018 It’s an engine swap, so you have to pick the highest trim for the starting point per 4.5.6, so, whichever of those three is the highest VPI. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takjak2 Posted February 15, 2018 Report Share Posted February 15, 2018 A very strict reading of the rules says "4.5.6. Vehicles must use the highest valued model from its generation." A '92 is a 5th generation Civic, which ran until 1995. The B16 listed on the VPI table is 350 points, BUT the B16 was never offered in the 5th gen Civic in the US (it was in European and JDM Si models) The USDM received the D16 VTEC in 5th gen Si. That model is 200 points, and that's what I would use as your starting point. If anyone complains you point to 2.2.1. which is the USDM rule. *I'm not a Honda expect, this is a study of the wikipedia pages. Stock tank for your 92 might be 10 gallons depending on trim. While you're at it, claim to be the '95 with 11.9 gallons. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takjak2 Posted February 15, 2018 Report Share Posted February 15, 2018 (edited) Since the starting points are the same, you could actually claim to be the non-VTEC. It has a higher starting weight in the calculator Edited February 15, 2018 by takjak2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtwill Posted February 15, 2018 Report Share Posted February 15, 2018 quick calculation to what I know was on it at sale car-200+50 swap= 250 base trans-25 rear sway-20 rad-20 cr. pulley-5 mounts-20 header-25 plastic-6 steel-2 strut brace if you use it-10 total as presented - 383 this car was at 501 with all the same goodies but all of the freebies now allowed so the BMW guys didn't pout when we stomped them bring the total down considerably 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takjak2 Posted February 15, 2018 Report Share Posted February 15, 2018 7 minutes ago, curtwill said: mounts-20 header-25 this car was at 501 with all the same goodies but all of the freebies now allowed so the BMW guys didn't pout when we stomped them bring the total down considerably It's a swap. Mounts and header are "free" if you say "required for swap". Otherwise, those numbers look good. The "140 hp" B18B is a 50 point swap for this car. #secretrulebook #sillyrulebook 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Andrew D Johnson Posted February 15, 2018 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted February 15, 2018 1 minute ago, takjak2 said: It's a swap. Mounts and header are "free" if you say "required for swap". Otherwise, those numbers look good. The "140 hp" B18B is a 50 point swap for this car. #secretrulebook #sillyrulebook The mounts are free, but the header is not for a b series swap into an EG. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karman1970 Posted February 15, 2018 Report Share Posted February 15, 2018 28 minutes ago, red0 said: The mounts are free Assuming they are stock mounts. If they are aftermarket poly or some such they should be points, right? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtwill Posted February 15, 2018 Report Share Posted February 15, 2018 non stock solid mounts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morganf Posted February 15, 2018 Report Share Posted February 15, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, karman1970 said: Assuming they are stock mounts. If they are aftermarket poly or some such they should be points, right? How would you swaping a 305 chevy in to an rx7, using stock mounts? No, mounts are part of the $1500 swap total. Just because a civic happens to have stock mounts that work doesn't mean you have to use them. In the rule motor mounts are included with a swap but it doesn't say stock. 4.5.3. Engine swaps include stock long block, stock exhaust manifolds, stock induction system, motor mounts, starter, ECU, wiring, and transmission adapters Edited February 15, 2018 by morganf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mender Posted February 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2018 2 hours ago, curtwill said: quick calculation to what I know was on it at sale car-200+50 swap= 250 base trans-25 rear sway-20 rad-20 cr. pulley-5 mounts-20 header-25 plastic-6 steel-2 strut brace if you use it-10 total as presented - 383 this car was at 501 with all the same goodies but all of the freebies now allowed so the BMW guys didn't pout when we stomped them bring the total down considerably Engine mounts are 10/engine so 373 points total or 363 by Morgan's count. Thanks for all the help, guys, I was mostly trying to understand how tech would assess the base car. As usual I was overthinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtwill Posted February 15, 2018 Report Share Posted February 15, 2018 7 minutes ago, mender said: Engine mounts are 10/engine so 373 points total or 363 by Morgan's count. Thanks for all the help, guys, I was mostly trying to understand how tech would assess the base car. As usual I was overthinking. tranny mounts are 10 as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mender Posted February 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2018 (edited) Yup, missed that. Are they included in the tranny swap? Edited February 15, 2018 by mender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mender Posted February 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2018 And while I'm thinking about it, what would I get dinged for a pair of Weber 45 DCOEs? I've got a set and have been wondering what to put them on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtwill Posted February 15, 2018 Report Share Posted February 15, 2018 26 minutes ago, mender said: And while I'm thinking about it, what would I get dinged for a pair of Weber 45 DCOEs? I've got a set and have been wondering what to put them on. it's the west coast...stuff them on there....nobody protests...oh-wait...its my old Honda....you will get protested 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mender Posted February 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, curtwill said: it's the west coast...stuff them on there....nobody protests...oh-wait...its my old Honda....you will get protested Gee, I hope so! Edited February 16, 2018 by mender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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