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I thought the rule on oil coolers was as straight forward as possible. 

oil cooler, non-OE (engine, transmission and/or differential): 20 pts each

 

Any non original equipment oil cooler is $20. This is simple as far as I am concerned. Now I am seeing people say that if your car had a water to oil cooler that is no longer available you can run an after market oil cooler for 0 points?

 

On the attached image #11 is the OE oil cooler. Since this is not available, teams are claiming aftermarket air to oil coolers at 0 points?! Don't you either have to 1) Find it on ebay or a junkyard  or 2) don't run it?

Shouldn't any non oe oil cooler be 20 points per the rules?
 

Oil_cooler.jpg

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54 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

That would be my interpretation, just like the radiator discussions...

 

I might be biased because my car has one of the best stock oil coolers....

 Every 13b rx7 had one? Nothing to discuss, you and your rotary brethren get a free pass...

 

On the other hand, we are opposite with nothing to discuss, no trim level of our base or swap donor car had any form of engine cooler.

 

What this comes down to is:

Does any random Champ racer with a swap have latitude to choose to leave the cooler already equipped on their shell vs a swap donor engine that (potentially) came equipped with some form of one.

 

 

Edited by Team Infiniti
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1 hour ago, red0 said:

I thought the rule on oil coolers was as straight forward as possible. 

oil cooler, non-OE (engine, transmission and/or differential): 20 pts each

 

Any non original equipment oil cooler is $20. This is simple as far as I am concerned. Now I am seeing people say that if your car had a water to oil cooler that is no longer available you can run an after market oil cooler for 0 points?

 

On the attached image #11 is the OE oil cooler. Since this is not available, teams are claiming aftermarket air to oil coolers at 0 points?! Don't you either have to 1) Find it on ebay or a junkyard  or 2) don't run it?

Shouldn't any non oe oil cooler be 20 points per the rules?
 

Oil_cooler.jpg

 

Agreed

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1 hour ago, red0 said:

I thought the rule on oil coolers was as straight forward as possible. 

oil cooler, non-OE (engine, transmission and/or differential): 20 pts each

 

Any non original equipment oil cooler is $20. This is simple as far as I am concerned. Now I am seeing people say that if your car had a water to oil cooler that is no longer available you can run an after market oil cooler for 0 points?

 

On the attached image #11 is the OE oil cooler. Since this is not available, teams are claiming aftermarket air to oil coolers at 0 points?! Don't you either have to 1) Find it on ebay or a junkyard  or 2) don't run it?

Shouldn't any non oe oil cooler be 20 points per the rules?
 

Oil_cooler.jpg

If they end up being free can our axles we had to have made and claim be free to? I was able to find one OE axle last year in a North Dakota scrapyard (we are in Ohio) that had the original joint design. Other than that I don’t think there are any worth running left in the US. 

Edited by Kentite
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3 hours ago, red0 said:

I thought the rule on oil coolers was as straight forward as possible. 

oil cooler, non-OE (engine, transmission and/or differential): 20 pts each

 

Any non original equipment oil cooler is $20. This is simple as far as I am concerned. Now I am seeing people say that if your car had a water to oil cooler that is no longer available you can run an after market oil cooler for 0 points?

 

On the attached image #11 is the OE oil cooler. Since this is not available, teams are claiming aftermarket air to oil coolers at 0 points?! Don't you either have to 1) Find it on ebay or a junkyard  or 2) don't run it?

Shouldn't any non oe oil cooler be 20 points per the rules?
 

Oil_cooler.jpg

 

Except item number 11 looks a whole lot like a factory sandwich plate adaptor and not the actual cooler of the oil.  If your sandwich plate is damaged and no suitable OE replacements can be found, what is the harm in running an aftermarket adapter that performs the same function and does not provide any performance increase over the factory design?

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If you document that the part (cooler) is no longer available, the performance of such OE part, the VERY similar performance of the replacement part being listed as OE replacement, present such documentation to tech, and tech approves then you are good to go.  No different than stock shocks no longer being available for the Fox Mustang so KYB Excel G are accepted as OE replacement as that is what the documentation says.  If it said the same for a cooler that was no longer available I would not have an issue as long as there is documentation approved by tech. 

 

We are racing 30 year old cars after all, some parts just are not available.  Show up with "OE replacement Edelbrock" and we would have a little issue.

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44 minutes ago, karman1970 said:

 

Except item number 11 looks a whole lot like a factory sandwich plate adaptor and not the actual cooler of the oil.  If your sandwich plate is damaged and no suitable OE replacements can be found, what is the harm in running an aftermarket adapter that performs the same function and does not provide any performance increase over the factory design?

Not to nit-pick, just an FYI, but that #11 part is actually the cooler.  Its the exact same as the Miata.  Those two 90deg barbs are for coolant to flow in/out.

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Many OE coolers are simple water through the oil filter housing . VW, Mazda, Corvette, etc.   

 

I think that the engine in the car  should dictate the trim of the longblock. If it came OE with the water housing then you can use it . @ 0 pts.

    If you opt for the race  ,air to oil cooler, then take the 20  points.

 I saw a note someplace about the swap to air from water and a tech value of 10 pts . That  is BS. No place allows for a 10 pt value. 

   I hope that  the Values  have considered the more racey cars with coolers stock , and can be run @ 100% duty cycle..  vs the pts needed to   allow a lesser engine     to be run as hard. 

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1 hour ago, Alchemy Autosport said:

Not to nit-pick, just an FYI, but that #11 part is actually the cooler.  Its the exact same as the Miata.  Those two 90deg barbs are for coolant to flow in/out.

 

Didn't know that. That's ghetto AF, lolI guess I would question how effective that even is. How long is the oil even in the cooler to transfer some of its heat? A second or two tops? Heck, I'd just wrap some hose from the heater circuit around the oil filter. That should work about the same, right :) 

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6 hours ago, red0 said:

Any non original equipment oil cooler is $20. This is simple as far as I am concerned. Now I am seeing people say that if your car had a water to oil cooler that is no longer available you can run an after market oil cooler for 0 points?

 

On the attached image #11 is the OE oil cooler. Since this is not available, teams are claiming aftermarket air to oil coolers at 0 points?! Don't you either have to 1) Find it on ebay or a junkyard  or 2) don't run it

I specifically asked about this in another thread. Our 2nd car has a factory water to oil cooler with hard lines from the coolant lines on the lower intake and a plate. The hard lines are relatively brittle, especially since they are now 23 years old. And we think the plate is leaking. All parts have been out of production for a long time, so OE replacements are not available and there is zero aftermarket support for it. These parts are sporadically available on eBay and typically they are junk (rusted hard lines, twisted mounting brackets, etc.). I haven't had much success finding them for sale elsewhere since this item was on a "special edition" car and was a very limited production of the entire model run. 

We asked Dan when we tech'd the Mazda at Sebring in December. He suggested we put together details of the OE cooler and what we'd like to run as a replacement and send it to Tech for a ruling. If I had an OE cooler, but parts aren't available to service it, shouldn't I have the option to run an "OEM-equivalent" part on my car? That's what BCCR 4.7.6 states. Perhaps if it's moving from a water to oil to an air to oil, there could be a limitation on the HE size. Assuming, of course, you're okay with more rules. 

S. 

Edited by Snorman
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1 hour ago, karman1970 said:

 

Didn't know that. That's ghetto AF, lolI guess I would question how effective that even is. How long is the oil even in the cooler to transfer some of its heat? A second or two tops? Heck, I'd just wrap some hose from the heater circuit around the oil filter. That should work about the same, right :) 

I have one and it keeps the oil temp within 40-50 degrees F of the coolant temp. Typically run 190 F coolant temp and 230-240 F oil temp.

 

Liquid to liquid is very efficient and doesn't require the soak time that a liquid to air cooler does. That's why the auto trans cooler in a stock rad is so small.

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19 minutes ago, Snorman said:

If I had an OE cooler, but parts aren't available to service it, shouldn't I have the option to run an "OEM-equivalent" part on my car? That's what BCCR 4.7.6 states. Perhaps if it's moving from a water to oil to an air to oil, there could be a limitation on the HE size. Assuming, of course, you're okay with more rules. 

S. 

There are people who can fix rusted/broken fittings and lines. Probably involves some cutting, drilling, tapping, TIG welding perhaps. But it's doable.

The original oil cooler on our BMW was leaking and I took it to a hydraulic repair guy and now it's perfect. It's not exactly the same fix as yours... but you could have yours repaired.

 

Moving from water to air is not "OEM equivalent" by any stretch of the imagination.

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5 minutes ago, enginerd said:

Moving from water to air is not "OEM equivalent" by any stretch of the imagination.

My experience in stock cars with OE water to oil coolers is that they work fine and control oil temps to within ~50 degrees of coolant temps, or well within the thermal capabilities of the oils that most of us run. So I'm not sure that a small air to oil HE is going to help us at all. But if we can't keep the stock hardware we might have no choice. 

S. 

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2 minutes ago, Snorman said:

My experience in stock cars with OE water to oil coolers is that they work fine and control oil temps to within ~50 degrees of coolant temps, or well within the thermal capabilities of the oils that most of us run. So I'm not sure that a small air to oil HE is going to help us at all. But if we can't keep the stock hardware we might have no choice. 

S. 

Any pictures or drawings of the plate?

 

GM has a few different ones, maybe you can adapt that and at least have an "OE equivalent".

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40 minutes ago, Snorman said:

My experience in stock cars with OE water to oil coolers is that they work fine and control oil temps to within ~50 degrees of coolant temps, or well within the thermal capabilities of the oils that most of us run. So I'm not sure that a small air to oil HE is going to help us at all. But if we can't keep the stock hardware we might have no choice. 

S. 

Or you could plug the holes in some way or remove it completely maybe? Or take 20 points for a non-OE oil cooler. If it doesn't do much to begin with, maybe you're fine without a working one.

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14 hours ago, karman1970 said:

 

Except item number 11 looks a whole lot like a factory sandwich plate adaptor and not the actual cooler of the oil.  If your sandwich plate is damaged and no suitable OE replacements can be found, what is the harm in running an aftermarket adapter that performs the same function and does not provide any performance increase over the factory design?

That is a cooler, not an adapter plate.  Looks similar to the ones available on the 60 Deg V6 from GM

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13 hours ago, Snorman said:

I specifically asked about this in another thread. Our 2nd car has a factory water to oil cooler with hard lines from the coolant lines on the lower intake and a plate. The hard lines are relatively brittle, especially since they are now 23 years old. And we think the plate is leaking. All parts have been out of production for a long time, so OE replacements are not available and there is zero aftermarket support for it. These parts are sporadically available on eBay and typically they are junk (rusted hard lines, twisted mounting brackets, etc.). I haven't had much success finding them for sale elsewhere since this item was on a "special edition" car and was a very limited production of the entire model run. 

We asked Dan when we tech'd the Mazda at Sebring in December. He suggested we put together details of the OE cooler and what we'd like to run as a replacement and send it to Tech for a ruling. If I had an OE cooler, but parts aren't available to service it, shouldn't I have the option to run an "OEM-equivalent" part on my car? That's what BCCR 4.7.6 states. Perhaps if it's moving from a water to oil to an air to oil, there could be a limitation on the HE size. Assuming, of course, you're okay with more rules. 

S. 

Personally I would be ok with this, IF it were on an extremely limited basis and not an overall go ahead to upgrade your oil cooler...  Prove its an issue, and find a replacement thats suitable as an "OE equivalent" and be done with it.  But its a slippery slope and a lot of people are GREEEEEEEEEEEEEDY!

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