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Arrive and Drive Cost Determination


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Hey guys, how do you guys determine how much a seat costs in your car? Thinking about doing something like this in the future and I just want to come up with fair pricing. I remember there was an old thread about that but I don't know if it made it to these new forums.

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10 minutes ago, RyanGreener said:

Hey guys, how do you guys determine how much a seat costs in your car? Thinking about doing something like this in the future and I just want to come up with fair pricing. I remember there was an old thread about that but I don't know if it made it to these new forums.

Add up all event costs.  Divide by number of drivers.

 

Entry fee

Brake pad usage

Fuel usage (racecar)

Fuel usage (tranpo)

tire costs

food costs

Lubricant costs

practice day costs

wear and tear costs

hotel cost (if providing a place to stay)

Ice, drinks, etc... costs

 

Usually around 500$ for 2 hours driving with my cars.

 

Or, to put it another way, 2 stints in the weekend for 1K.

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8 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Add up all event costs.  Divide by number of drivers.

 

Entry fee

Brake pad usage

Fuel usage (racecar)

Fuel usage (tranpo)

tire costs

food costs

Lubricant costs

practice day costs

wear and tear costs

hotel cost (if providing a place to stay)

Ice, drinks, etc... costs

 

Usually around 500$ for 2 hours driving with my cars.

 

Or, to put it another way, 2 stints in the weekend for 1K.

 

Thanks for the breakdown, but I was specifically wondering how you break down "wear and tear costs" for example.

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one thing you can do for that is divide by 3 instead of 4 on the total expenses to include wear and tear.   but keep in mind what you can ask should be based on lots more

 

- car has a proven history of lasting / winning

- how you deal with crash damage

- renter skill as driver

- renter is willing and able to wrench or help vs arrive and drive

- how close to a race they commit / pay

 

etc

Edited by theblue
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We generally budget in all the things that are expendable (Tires, Brakes, Gas, towing gas, tow vehicle rental if we use the enclosed trailer) and then add in some for wear and tear.  Longer races require a bit more so they are more expensive.  Like Team Infinity stated, there's a lot to be said for just showing up and driving without having to do any of the prep work.  A price has to be associated with that as well.  

 

If one of us owners ever hits the lottery, no more renters...hell we might not even do our own pit stops after that.

 

 

Edited by Jab31169
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24 minutes ago, Jab31169 said:

We generally budget in all the things that are expendable (Tires, Brakes, Gas, towing gas, tow vehicle rental if we use the enclosed trailer) and then add in some for wear and tear.  Longer races require a bit more so they are more expensive.  Like Team Infinity stated, there's a lot to be said for just showing up and driving without having to do any of the prep work.  A price has to be associated with that as well.  

 

If one of us owners ever hits the lottery, no more renters...hell we might not even do our own pit stops after that.

 

 

Do you feel renters are that much of a hassle? I actually want to do arrive and drive services to help introduce people into motorsports.

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55 minutes ago, RyanGreener said:

Thanks for the breakdown, but I was specifically wondering how you break down "wear and tear costs" for example.

I recently made a spreadsheet to more accurately track these costs. For large components (engine / trans / diff) I assumed an 8 race lifespan and amortized 1/8th of their costs into each race budget. I also price in a set of tires, entry fee, oil change, half a brake job, etc. Gasoline is factored in at 8 gal / hour * race length * fuel price. Tow rig costs I made a WAG at $0.80 / mile.

 

You also need to budget in some cushion, too. This is something I didn't do a good job of before and was eating the price of any unexpected thing which broke (axle / control arms / bushings / tie rods / wheel bearings). I still don't have a good estimate of how much to "cushion" at each event.

Edited by enginerd
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47 minutes ago, RyanGreener said:

Thanks for the breakdown, but I was specifically wondering how you break down "wear and tear costs" for example.

You've just got to make some assumptions for 'wear and tear' beyond basic costs and consumables.

You'll have body panels bent, engines blown, tires blown, wheels broken/bent, glass cracked, paint smudged, parts dented, cool shirt coolers that leak/break, lights broken, switches broken, tools lost, easy ups broken, gopros broken/lost, radios broken/lost, etc.  

 

I am on a team running an E30.  We all work on the car, but one guy owns the car.  We just pay him cost plus $100 each per event to cover car wear and tear.  There are 5 of us, but usually just 4 doing a given race.  If everything goes perfectly, it'll cost ~$3k-$3.5k including food, lodging, and beer.   A bad race might cost us $5k.  Average is probably closer to $4k.  Add to that anything that gets broken and the above-mentioned 'wear and tear' to get a good estimated cost.  By the way, everything on that list has happened to me.

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19 minutes ago, RyanGreener said:

 

Do you feel renters are that much of a hassle? I actually want to do arrive and drive services to help introduce people into motorsports.

 

Depends upon the renter honestly.  We haven't had any real bad experience with any of our renters, they've all been good to great.  Almost all of our renters have come from the HPDE schools we've attended and become friends with them previous to inviting them to rent.

 

For us, as long as they had some track driving experience and have shown the ability to not act like a dick in and out of the pits, then they should be good.  Just set the expectation from the get go with the renter.

Edited by Jab31169
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1 hour ago, RyanGreener said:

 

Do you feel renters are that much of a hassle? I actually want to do arrive and drive services to help introduce people into motorsports.

 

Not necessarily a hassle.  More like an unknown that is going to lead to MORE heartburn than you deal with at a race with known variables...

 

Its just.... Not fun.

 

That's why you have to be picky when getting rental drivers.

 

However, the flip side is that most of the regular drivers on the team were once rental drivers.

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We have a preferred list of drivers we go though before the races that we need renters for.  I don't know if we would ever rent to the "general public" because of the possible heartburn it could lead to.  We've already agreed to take up the slack if we have a spot we cant get rented as opposed to picking up a random unknown.

 

I was a renter before I bought into this team.  Hell I had never made it into an open passing group before I did my first chump race...where they made me start the VIR24.  Now almost a year later, im a full on jackass who's hooked on this stuff and I've even progressed to become an Instructor for HPDE schools.  Renting is a great way for folks to try racing out relatively cheap and it might even push you to become a better driver than you think you can be.

 

Edited by Jab31169
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35 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

 

Not necessarily a hassle.  More like an unknown that is going to lead to MORE heartburn than you deal with at a race with known variables...

 

Its just.... Not fun.

 

That's why you have to be picky when getting rental drivers.

 

However, the flip side is that most of the regular drivers on the team were once rental drivers.

I have only run in Lemons previously, but in my new car build for Champ, I feel the same way and it's going to take a really good guy for me to rent to them, but it's worth it. I've met some great people that way.

 

When we ran lemons, we rented to some people who were even SCCA road race guys and they ended up effing with our stuff. Speed shifting, general abuse, putting themselves in careless situations that caused multiple accidents. I don't take racing credentials as the top pick anymore. In fact, one of the coolest guys we rented to had only ever auto crossed before and he was a great driver after a couple practice days, worked on the car with us, was great to hang out with, etc. he wasn't the fastest, but I'll take that any day over a "pro" who doesn't have respect and drives with a chip on their shoulder.

 

Anyway, long story short, my 2 cents to anyone looking to rent to drivers, pick someone who is a "cool dude" and can drive well over a pro who is a dick. You will have a much better weekend, IMHO!

Edited by UglyBoost91
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13 minutes ago, UglyBoost91 said:

I have only run in Lemons previously, but in my new car build for Champ, I feel the same way and it's going to take a really good guy for me to rent to them, but it's worth it. I've met some great people that way.

 

When we ran lemons, we rented to some people who were even SCCA road race guys and they ended up effing with our stuff. Speed shifting, general abuse, putting themselves in careless situations that caused multiple accidents. I don't take racing credentials as the top pick anymore. In fact, one of the coolest guys we rented to had only ever auto crossed before and he was a great driver after a couple practice days, worked on the car with us, was great to hang out with, etc. he wasn't the fastest, but I'll take that any day over a "pro" who doesn't have respect and drives with a chip on their shoulder.

 

Anyway, long story short, my 2 cents to anyone looking to rent to drivers, pick someone who is a "cool dude" and can drive well over a pro who is a dick. You will have a much better weekend, IMHO!

 

Oh yeah....club racers (sprint racers in general) drive the balls out of the car. It's just all they know. Well, I'm sure people here have rental agreements to account for that kind of stuff right?

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I've been charging $1000 but it's not enough.  I'll probably increase it next year to $1150 or so...need to have some success first.  Car should be through it's teething pains I hope. 

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3 hours ago, Jer said:

I've been charging $1000 but it's not enough.  I'll probably increase it next year to $1150 or so...need to have some success first.  Car should be through it's teething pains I hope. 

Priced me right out of renting from you. :lol::lol:

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4 hours ago, UglyBoost91 said:

I have only run in Lemons previously, but in my new car build for Champ, I feel the same way and it's going to take a really good guy for me to rent to them, but it's worth it. I've met some great people that way.

 

When we ran lemons, we rented to some people who were even SCCA road race guys and they ended up effing with our stuff. Speed shifting, general abuse, putting themselves in careless situations that caused multiple accidents. I don't take racing credentials as the top pick anymore. In fact, one of the coolest guys we rented to had only ever auto crossed before and he was a great driver after a couple practice days, worked on the car with us, was great to hang out with, etc. he wasn't the fastest, but I'll take that any day over a "pro" who doesn't have respect and drives with a chip on their shoulder.

 

Anyway, long story short, my 2 cents to anyone looking to rent to drivers, pick someone who is a "cool dude" and can drive well over a pro who is a dick. You will have a much better weekend, IMHO!

I'm curious what do you consider a "pro" driver ?

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1 hour ago, DEE DEE said:

I'm curious what do you consider a "pro" driver ?

Someone who can drive the hell out of a car but brings it back in pieces, your not a “pro” your one of those “cool dudes”. 🙂

Edited by Ronh911
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