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Need 4" brake duct hose


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Rather then continue adding to 9 years of hodge-podge, it is time to rip everything out and start a fresh build of the front brake cooling system. With one backing plate and one front scoop almost complete it is time to look for new ducts, overkill is the goal w/dual 4" to each side.

 

In the past we were able to score some awesome floor scraps from nascar related chumps, unfortunately, over time, I have lost contact with those sources, there are no nascar "junkyards" in south florida and shopping ebay is a serious eye opener at how much this stuff is new...

 

We need almost 16ft of 4 in hose (or four 4 ft sections)

 

Anyone out there know where to get or have access to used orange stuff at a chumpy price?

 

Since my poorly chosen photobucket went spam I am broken to trying to fix everything..Pics are in phone but with Max total size 0.56MB it is not fun trying to fit, if I can get the attn @Bill Strong to tell me what I am doing wrong pics will become available for the curious.

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43 minutes ago, Black Magic said:

Sri used parts or 2nd chance. Both in mooresville nc. 

 

3" is much easier to find. Adapter it? 

    4 inch was deliberate and going to be a challenge for packaging...3 inch would be much easier but  team driving style combined with slightly undersized calipers...( They ain't  small, she's fat)

  Been to second chance but it's 693 miles… was hoping for a hook up from here. 

  Suppose I could look into shipping  from second chance.

 

Edited by Team Infiniti
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Dual 4" per side??? 

 

Is too much thermal cycling a real thing or not (given the size of our brakes)? I dunno if it is just a myth or is it a possibility to actually over-cool the rotor on long straights thus increasing the potential for stress cracking? Or is that an old wives tail? 

 

Edit: for pics I save to google drive from phone, open on desktop, use snipping tool to make .pgn file which is way smaller and more forum friendly

Edited by pintodave
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8 hours ago, pintodave said:

Dual 4" per side??? 

 

Is too much thermal cycling a real thing or not (given the size of our brakes)? I dunno if it is just a myth or is it a possibility to actually over-cool the rotor on long straights thus increasing the potential for stress cracking? Or is that an old wives tail? 

 

Edit: for pics I save to google drive from phone, open on desktop, use snipping tool to make .pgn file which is way smaller and more forum friendly

Over cool? You have seen us/our car since almost day one, there is no way we will ever achieve such a thing!  From past experimentation (cooling remaining the same)pad selection is more a factor in how cracked the rotor gets, our favorite pad is stupid rotor friendly with multiple pad slaps before killing em.

 

What I am fighting against is wear, not fade or overly crispy parts, there is a high temp point where everything works fine but wear goes exponential, over the years I have operated below, above and within the right range. At this juncture one can plainly see, no matter how we tweak the current setup, (a 3 in + a restricted 4 in duct) we are hot, hovering right at the beginning of huge wear, this whole exercise is to get more pad/rotor life.

 

Not buying the heat cycle tale and YES I know too cool will tear up everything, if packaging doesn't kill flow, it is easy to cut it on purpose, if such a unlikely thing happens.

 

If someone wants to explore other aspects of the brakes to explain the dynamics of what we are all doing right or wrong I am fine with that but this setup is tried and true, are exceedingly happy with everything, stopping power and compounds used, there will be no other changes.

 

Thanks for the pics suggestion but it used to be easier a few months ago till bill flipped some inner switch killing whatever I was doing.

 

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Yea, looks like they massively throttled how much one can upload, kind of a pita, must be for site hosting costs is the only thing I can think of... 

 

Interesting, be curious to see if the add'l cooling makes a difference, if it doesn't then there is always 6" diameter 🤣

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In the tech video series we are working on brakes and brake cooling will be covered. I think infinity is on the right track.

 

If you are cracking rotors, warping etc you might lack enough cheek thickness in the rotor or rotor mass.

 

If your wear is just silly and the rotors are already 5 to 7 lbs of weight per 1000 lbs of racecar, it is Probally a cooling issue. How wide is the fin area of rotor, what cooling does it get? Forced or passive? 

 

I did a 3" hose for rotor, 3"for caliper. You can do 2 3" hoses. Most pro racers use multiple 3" hose because they are easier to package than a single 4" makes 4" rare. 

 

Remember rotor weight stores the heat to get the peak temps down, cooling keeps the average temp from continuing to rise. 

Edited by Black Magic
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well heck, maybe I'll look at adding some add'l cooling... although I suspect the severe crack we saw @ Daytona was a rotor issue. I'm going back to Frozen stockers for VIR so that will be the real test (a 24). Frozens were still the best out of the budget options I have tried. 

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8 minutes ago, Black Magic said:

In the tech video series we are working on brakes and brake cooling will be covered. I think infinity is on the right track.

 

If you are cracking rotors, warping etc you might lack enough cheek thickness in the rotor or rotor mass.

 

If your wear is just silly and the rotors are already 5 to 7 lbs of weight per 1000 lbs of racecar, it is Probally a cooling issue. How wide is the fin area of rotor, what cooling does it get? Forced or passive? 

 

I did a 3" hose for rotor, 3"for caliper. You can do 2 3" hoses. Most pro racers use multiple 3" hose because they are easier to package than a single 4" makes 4" rare. 

 

Remember rotor weight stores the heat to get the peak temps down, cooling keeps the average temp from continuing to rise. 

7

Is that rule of thumb for one -piece or two-piece rotors?

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1 minute ago, pintodave said:

Frozen stockers

The one time we tried frozen, 12 chumpsionship, it proved we were fine without the added expense, turned out compound was the issue, once that was settled rotor selection went to $30 white box units, never a problem with cheepies till trying autozone lifetime where they proved so horrible in cooling design I discarded them without trying to warranty after only 1 event .

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6 minutes ago, mender said:

Is that rule of thumb for one -piece or two-piece rotors?

 

I was thinking 1 piece. Depends on your noseweight and cg if you are sizing front brakes. Obviously depends on power, but assuming a front running team

 

Roughly 2100 to 2200lbs neon world, 10lbs rotors were marginal, 15 solves the issue. The cheek thickness was only major difference (same fin area thicker rotor).

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I'm going to hat-style 1.25" wide x 11.75" diameter and will be trying out fairly light ones first to see how they do.

 

The ones we ran on the NCATS cars were about 12 lbs for a 51% front 3150 lb car with 500 hp on slicks; I'm looking at 9 lb ones for the Fiero.

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15 minutes ago, mender said:

I'm going to hat-style 1.25" wide x 11.75" diameter and will be trying out fairly light ones first to see how they do.

 

The ones we ran on the NCATS cars were about 12 lbs for a 51% front 3150 lb car with 500 hp on slicks; I'm looking at 9 lb ones for the Fiero.

 

I would guess a 10 lbs single rotor is only about 6 or 7 lbs of equivalent two piece rotor. Once you get the heat into the hat part it is into the hub. 12 lbs two piece rotor (just the iron) might be equal to a nearly 20 lbs rotor in mass at the actual cheeks\fins.

 

Look for hub heat, as the other advantage of rotor mass can be less peak heat at the flange\front of hub (outer bearing death). 

 

Those 1.25" rotors have lots of fin space, good piece. 

Edited by Black Magic
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DSCI0006.thumb.JPG.25e1f4ade8d29db02efe5e5cbf2d4a7d.JPG

And cheap; can buy the rotors from Wilwood for $50 each. :)

 

You can see how I adapted the rotor to the stock Fiero solid disc front brake hub:

DSCI0001.thumb.JPG.ef04656480ed5fc552332ec959d5b402.JPG

 

And the end view:

DSCI0003.thumb.JPG.93beefa95aab5261ebd5e87d30a3c761.JPG

 

The pad material is 0.600" thick and around $100/set for "E" compound (Blues?). Pads are Wilwood #7420, Hawk HB521. Wilwood Superlite calipers are 5 points each.

Edited by mender
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1 hour ago, Black Magic said:

If your wear is just silly and the rotors are already 5 to 7 lbs of weight per 1000 lbs of racecar, it is Probally a cooling issue. How wide is the fin area of rotor, what cooling does it get? Forced or passive? 

For conversations sake, your expertise has confirmed my engineering/parts selection is on par with voodoo math things on paper, I was/am convinced there is enough rotor but need a little more cooling and or pad surface with cooling being the simplest/least expensive option.

 

19.5lbs of rotor on 3000lbs of beast

 

Anyone with some spare orange ductwork?

Don't tell my fab guy but I suppose 3x3 in could be made to work but there will be some re making of already created stuff, not to mention, a bump up to 24 ft needed

 

 

Edited by Team Infiniti
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Ed, what if you use the good stuff where the heat will be and use something cheaper like https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA10Z0CA1551&ignorebbr=1&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleMKP-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleMKP-PC-_-pla-_-Vacuum+%26+Floor+Care+Accessories-_-9SIA10Z0CA1551&gclid=CjwKCAjwyMfZBRAXEiwA-R3gM2aA4JQcoWmyll5yDGfc5F1zIO_K8dNUXag4QaMUrSr7EHP-byK8MxoCIEYQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds from the nose to maybe the wheel well, so you can cut the cost down....

Edited by Justin9
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Just looked at Summit, man 4” is expensive. Dryer duct or a couple $25 brake duct fans for the 3 inch?

Where does your hise

terminate? We tried to force as much air as possible to the center of the hub via funneling the end of the connection. Let the vanes in the rotor pull it through from there.

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3 minutes ago, Kentite said:

Just looked at Summit, man 4” is expensive. Dryer duct or a couple $25 brake duct fans for the 3 inch?

Where does your hise

terminate? We tried to force as much air as possible to the center of the hub via funneling the end of the connection. Let the vanes in the rotor pull it through from there.

Starts @ the fog light area and connects directly to a custom backing plate.

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4 hours ago, mender said:

DSCI0006.thumb.JPG.25e1f4ade8d29db02efe5e5cbf2d4a7d.JPG

And cheap; can buy the rotors from Wilwood for $50 each. :)

 

You can see how I adapted the rotor to the stock Fiero solid disc front brakes:

DSCI0001.thumb.JPG.ef04656480ed5fc552332ec959d5b402.JPG

 

And the end view:

DSCI0003.thumb.JPG.93beefa95aab5261ebd5e87d30a3c761.JPG

 

The pad material is 0.600" thick and around $100/set for "E" compound (Blues?). Pads are Wilwood #7420, Hawk HB521. Wilwood Superlite calipers are 5 points each.

 

Wilwoods are free if you do your math right...

 

5 points for calipers over 2 that start with a w.....

 

120is for a superlight....your calipers brand new (not a rebuild without core charge) or core plus rebuild should be 60....

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I actually have about 10 feet of the high heat stuff (black, not orange) just sitting in my garage right now...  I was debating whether I need it or not....

 

I also have 10 feet of 2.5 inch...

 

Maybe we can work something out.

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9 minutes ago, Black Magic said:

 

Wilwoods are free if you do your math right...

 

5 points for calipers over 2 that start with a w.....

 

120is for a superlight....your calipers brand new (not a rebuild without core charge) or core plus rebuild should be 60....

Yup; I should have said 5 points at the most.

 

The brake set-up I was using on the Fiero was just fine, no issues even without ducting but I wanted to reduce my costs. The Wilwoods will pay for themselves in two race weekends, was going through a set of Blues each weekend. ST-43s last a lot longer than the Blues but don't seem to work well, too sticky on release.

Edited by mender
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