Fire Suppression, what ya got

[Gkuhn41]

Title says it all. After seeing a few fires this year and some new rules coming into affect 2020 we want to replace our 3 nozzle system with a GOOD fire suppression system. Prefer to purchase through lifeline.

 

Who has what, how many nozzles, recommendations real world experiences, size. Not looking to save money here.

 

Thanks in advance!

[Ron_e]

New rules in 2020?

[Gkuhn41]

Copied out of 2019 rule book.

 

3.9.1.1. EFFECTIVE 1/1/20 – Fire suppression systems must have SFI or FIA certification.

 

3.9.1.4. EFFECTIVE 1/1/20 - On Board Fire Suppression Systems shall be inspected for recertification at least every two years after the date of original certification or as specified by the certifying manufacturer. When a unit is determined to be acceptable for continued service, a new conformance label marked with the inspection date shall be used. In-field recertification is permitted, but ONLY by the original manufacturer or its authorized agent. Mailing of certification labels to customers is strictly prohibited. Systems shall have a maximum field service life of 6 years (SFI) or 10 years (FIA) from the original date of installation

 

[Snorman]

We are using these systems in both of our cars:

https://www.discoveryparts.com/lifeline-zero-2000-mechanically-discharged-fire-systems/3271-lifeline-zero-2000-4-liter-mechanical-system-lifeline-106-001-001.html

 

Discovery offers 10% for Champcar racers/teams. Note that they have increased the number of nozzles in these from 6 to 8. 

S. 

[Ron_e]

Hmmm, will have to check into this more.  Back when we shelled out $500 for our system we didn’t pay the extra $15 for the SFI tag as it was not needed at the time.  Hopefully that doesn’t mean I need to shell out another $515 to get a $15 tag.  

[Gkuhn41]

1 minute ago, Ron_e said:

Hmmm, will have to check into this more.  Back when we shelled out $500 for our system we didn’t pay the extra $15 for the SFI tag as it was not needed at the time.  Hopefully that doesn’t mean I need to shell out another $515 to get a $15 tag.  

 

I saw the rule and immediately thought of teams like yours. I like the change personally but its going to put some teams in a bind like yours and that stinks.

 

Our system is of unknown age as it was in the car when we purchased it. It has a good charge but after reading this and seeing a few bad fires we decided now is the time to move to a known commodity so to speak.

[Racer28173]

With the maximum service life of 6 years (for SFI systems), I would think a lot of people will be due for replacement when this rule kicks in.  Any system installed before 2014 that was SFI (with or without the sticker) will have hit the end of the 6 years when 2020 gets here.  (I may be misinterpreting what "maximum field service life" means though)

Edited November 9, 2018 by Racer28173

[Eman911]

Ridiculous

[Team Infiniti]

26 minutes ago, Racer28173 said:

With the maximum service life of 6 years (for SFI systems), I would think a lot of people will be due for replacement when this rule kicks in.  Any system installed before 2014 that was SFI (with or without the sticker) will have hit the end of the 6 years when 2020 gets here.

Are you saying a inspection/recharge will not be good enough @ 6 yrs? What year did this become mandatory?

[E. Tyler Pedersen]

I would look at a Lifeline System. They are a sponsor of ChampCar and a very good system. 

[thewheelerZ]

And what are we talking about here, the bottle or the whole system?  The bottle is all that gets inspected right? And we need to get it inspected every two years even if the sticker is good?

[Hunterflyy]

The Lifeline system is what my team has.  Good instructions and easy to install.

[snowman]

I would suggest good solid lines...steel perhaps.  The rubber coated soft aluminum lines on our system melted and shattered very quickly in our fire.  So when my brother pulled the handle, nothing happened.  He was burned and we lost the car.  

[Wittenauer Racing]

19 minutes ago, thewheelerZ said:

And what are we talking about here, the bottle or the whole system?  The bottle is all that gets inspected right? And we need to get it inspected every two years even if the sticker is good?

 

Yes, every 2 winters you have to pull the bottle and ship it ground to the OEM (or bring it into a re-cert center) and have it checked. (read, sticker added and they charge you $$$). 

 

Anyone know how much a re-cert is? We have Safecraft Dry Chemical systems in the Vintage cars and a Lifeline Foam system in the Champcar. The Vintage guys don't require re-certs, but will fail you if it looks uncared for or ancient.

 

While I dont want to haul a ton of extra weight around, we have debated a 2 bottle setup- one for engine bay, one for driver compartment. Thoughts?

[Racer28173]

1 hour ago, Team Infiniti said:

Are you saying a inspection/recharge will not be good enough @ 6 yrs? What year did this become mandatory?

I may have misinterpreted what "maximum field service life" means - I'm not sure if the 6 years is the useful life or the time between certifications.  The rule is up in the top of this thread.  It goes into effect in 2020.

 

EDIT:  I didn't misinterpret it.  See next post

Edited November 9, 2018 by Racer28173

[Racer28173]

OK - this is from the SFI site.  This definitely suggests that a SFI rated fire system is only good for 6 years

 

 

2.7 On Board Fire Suppression Systems shall be inspected for recertification at least every two years after the date of original certification or as specified by the certifying manufacturer. When a unit is determined to be acceptable for continued service, a new conformance label marked with the inspection date shall be used. In-field recertification is permitted, but ONLY by the original manufacturer or its authorized agent. Mailing of certification labels to customers is strictly prohibited. Systems shall have a maximum field service life of 6 years from the original date of installation. At the end of the 6-year period, all systems must be returned to the manufacturer or a certified recycling service center for lawful disassembly, recycling and decommissioning. No system may be refilled more than 6 times during its 6- year field service life.

 

 

Here's some info from lifeline's site:

 

Lifeline AFFF Fire Bottle Service & Recertification is required for Lifeline fire systems every two years, or whenever they have been triggered. We provide factory-trained recharging services to ensure the utmost safety in your car's Lifeline fire-suppression system.

• Bottles that are 10 years of age or older cannot be serviced
• Bottles that are 4 years past the label service date can no longer be charged

 

From firebottleracing.com

 

We are able to re-certify a system as long as the manufacturing date is less than six(6) years of age. This date can be found in the bottom left hand corner of the sticker on the front of the bottle(Figure #1)(Figure #2). Recharging a system would be the same rules, anything older than six(6) years would no longer be good for a recharge or an update. Look at all pictures below. 

[JDChristianson]

19 minutes ago, Racer28173 said:

OK - this is from the SFI site.  This definitely suggests that a SFI rated fire system is only good for 6 years

 

 

2.7 On Board Fire Suppression Systems shall be inspected for recertification at least every two years after the date of original certification or as specified by the certifying manufacturer. When a unit is determined to be acceptable for continued service, a new conformance label marked with the inspection date shall be used. In-field recertification is permitted, but ONLY by the original manufacturer or its authorized agent. Mailing of certification labels to customers is strictly prohibited. Systems shall have a maximum field service life of 6 years from the original date of installation. At the end of the 6-year period, all systems must be returned to the manufacturer or a certified recycling service center for lawful disassembly, recycling and decommissioning. No system may be refilled more than 6 times during its 6- year field service life.

 

 

Here's some info from lifeline's site:

 

Lifeline AFFF Fire Bottle Service & Recertification is required for Lifeline fire systems every two years, or whenever they have been triggered. We provide factory-trained recharging services to ensure the utmost safety in your car's Lifeline fire-suppression system.

• Bottles that are 10 years of age or older cannot be serviced
• Bottles that are 4 years past the label service date can no longer be charged

 

From firebottleracing.com

 

We are able to re-certify a system as long as the manufacturing date is less than six(6) years of age. This date can be found in the bottom left hand corner of the sticker on the front of the bottle(Figure #1)(Figure #2). Recharging a system would be the same rules, anything older than six(6) years would no longer be good for a recharge or an update. Look at all pictures below. 

1) I want our system to work and be up to date 

2). I can’t help being curious.  Are these regal from science, or lawyers 

( rhetorical question, it doesn’t really matter it’s in the rules and well do it). 

[Cam Benty]

Well done Gentlemen. 

 

Hopefully mandatory fuel cells are next.

[djsteviec]

I did a lot of research and talked with a lot of people. I went with a gas system rather than the AFFF foam system. Need to think about a possible accidental discharge more so than the car on fire. Hopefully the car never catches on fire, but the systems are only to get you more time to get out of the car. It is a bonus if it puts the fire out also.

 

I got a NOVEC SPA system with an automatic discharge bulb and a manual pull to the pin. It has 4 nozzles and is a 10gal not the minimum 5lb.

SPAex SFI10 LW-AM

 this system with steel lines. Paid  $865

 

[Gorillasticker.com]

https://squareup.com/store/racetech-motorsports/item/zero-fia-ltr-fire-marshal-steel-fire-suppression-system?t=modal-em

This is what we used in our last car. The link was from another member. Good price, good system. I think I used 4 nozzles, two in the engine bay, one at the waist and one at the feet. 

[Snorman]

Note that in our car (the Mustang), we have a fuel cell with an external surge tank and a bulkhead between the passenger compartment. We have 2 fire suppression nozzles in the trunk.

S. 

[Team Infiniti]

We bought from , then series sponsor, racing fire systems HPC-225, doesnt look to be SFI/FIA

 

A few months age we went over the system, disconnecting, testing/lubed the cable after someone reported theirs had seized. ( good thing, ours was starting to stick.) Looks like its time to start planning/saving for 2020

Edited November 10, 2018 by Team Infiniti

[pintodave]

The good thing is the cost of these systems has come down quite a bit over the years... looking at what @Snorman linked, $400 for a 4L system and all those nozzles is pretty damn reasonable. I think we are running the smaller one, after the new year I might upgrade to the bigger system "just because". 

[Snorman]

2 hours ago, pintodave said:

The good thing is the cost of these systems has come down quite a bit over the years... looking at what @Snorman linked, $400 for a 4L system and all those nozzles is pretty damn reasonable. I think we are running the smaller one, after the new year I might upgrade to the bigger system "just because". 

We run a bigger system than is required and with three times as many nozzles. IMO the fire suppression system isn't somewhere to cut weight or meet the bare minimum requirements. 

S. 

[Ian]

I've actually always been a bit shocked that this rule is just now being phased in.  Coming from the stage rally world, their fire systems/bottles need to be re-inspected, and tagged/dated every 12 months.....