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Fire Suppression, what ya got


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12 hours ago, SonsOfIrony said:

I've actually always been a bit shocked that this rule is just now being phased in.  Coming from the stage rally world, their fire systems/bottles need to be re-inspected, and tagged/dated every 12 months.....

I would think in stage rally you need to be much more self sufficient, the nearest help could be miles(?) away. It's hard to argue "against" safety but the rules are the minimum and there is nothing to discourage running a safer system other than cost.

 

Generally, I am in favor of affordability and personal responsibility when it comes to safety standards. When the series mandates a change like this it would be nice if they could work out some kind of one time deal with a sponsor that reduces the costs for members (group buy, discount certificates, rebates, etc)

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On 11/9/2018 at 5:00 PM, snowman said:

I would suggest good solid lines...steel perhaps.  The rubber coated soft aluminum lines on our system melted and shattered very quickly in our fire.  So when my brother pulled the handle, nothing happened.  He was burned and we lost the car.  

My plastic fittings melted in my fire too.  Now upgraded to steel.

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5 hours ago, ABR-Glen said:

Generally, I am in favor of affordability and personal responsibility when it comes to safety standards. When the series mandates a change like this it would be nice if they could work out some kind of one time deal with a sponsor that reduces the costs for members (group buy, discount certificates, rebates, etc)

The series is giving teams well over a year to upgrade their fire systems to SFI or FIA certified systems. And as I posted earlier, Discovery Parts already offers 10% off to Champcar teams. We paid $360 for a 4-liter AFFF system with 2 pulls and 8 nozzles, metal lines and fittings and is FIA cert'd. The re-certification of a bottle is ~$100 (plus shipping) every 2 years. 

I just don't think that this is some unreasonable requirement for teams.  Most spend more for 2 fresh tires than they will the fire system. 

S. 

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1 hour ago, Snorman said:

The series is giving teams well over a year to upgrade their fire systems to SFI or FIA certified systems. And as I posted earlier, Discovery Parts already offers 10% off to Champcar teams. We paid $360 for a 4-liter AFFF system with 2 pulls and 8 nozzles, metal lines and fittings and is FIA cert'd. The re-certification of a bottle is ~$100 (plus shipping) every 2 years. 

I just don't think that this is some unreasonable requirement for teams.  Most spend more for 2 fresh tires than they will the fire system. 

S. 

I don't think it's unreasonable either. Look at it the other way. Mandating 1000 teams to go out and buy fire suppression systems is big business. I can practically recite the Lifeline commercial from the live coverage, but I couldn't tell you what they do for the series. It's an opportunity to make an arrangement that benefits everyone.

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8 hours ago, ABR-Glen said:

I would think in stage rally you need to be much more self sufficient, the nearest help could be miles(?) away. It's hard to argue "against" safety but the rules are the minimum and there is nothing to discourage running a safer system other than cost.

 

Generally, I am in favor of affordability and personal responsibility when it comes to safety standards. When the series mandates a change like this it would be nice if they could work out some kind of one time deal with a sponsor that reduces the costs for members (group buy, discount certificates, rebates, etc)

 

The nearest help is the competitor 60 seconds behind you.  Not much different from the Marshall at the nearest flag stand.

 

Absolutely the people in the rally car should be somewhat self sufficient.  As should we all.  Fires don't always happen near flag stands, or at tracks with good emergency response teams like RA.  Arguably having a fire at a track like Nelson Ledges, or other small dollar tracks would be More dangerous than at a rally.  Volenteer personnel may be 2+ minutes out, and you're in the car alone, with no one to help you exit the vehicle.

 

I was astonished how little fire preparedness I've seen on some of the cars at races that passed tech.

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Looks like the SPA AFFF will be the system for us as it is rechargeable in Canada and FIA approved, nearly $800.

 

Perhaps a series sponsor could offer some other options for Canadian teams?  I will not consider anything that needs shipping to the US for recertification due to fees crossing the border.

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1 hour ago, ABR-Glen said:

I don't think it's unreasonable either. Look at it the other way. Mandating 1000 teams to go out and buy fire suppression systems is big business. I can practically recite the Lifeline commercial from the live coverage, but I couldn't tell you what they do for the series. It's an opportunity to make an arrangement that benefits everyone.

Not to be sarcastic, but anybody can set up a group buy. I don't really think it's the responsibility of the series. I just don't think that $360 is some major expense. It's a fraction of a race registration fee. 

S. 

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1 minute ago, mender said:

So now on to all new safety equipment every two years?

 

Is it wrong of me to question the necessity of ever-increasing costs in what used to be a series that emphasized accessibility?

You think that requiring the bottle to be recertified every two years for ~$100 is onerous? 

There have been a few fires. A racer had 2nd and 3rd degree burns on over 25% of his body because the race car's fire suppression system "did not function". I just can't fathom why there are complaints about safety items the series is implementing to help increase safety. 

S. 

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2 hours ago, mender said:

So now on to all new safety equipment every two years?

WTHeck are you talking about, a recert is hardly what anyone would call all new.

 

We aint bombing around in clunkers like the first events of 2010, things evolve, we are all faster then ever.

 

Window nets and belts are marked 4 (5 years for FIA), the bottle will be 2 to re-cert, suit/pants/gloves indefinite if I keep them pristine.

 

I too am mostly about personal responsibility but a little helping hand will keep me safer from myself. Thank You BCCR!

 

 

 

Edited by Team Infiniti
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9 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

My plastic fittings melted in my fire too.  Now upgraded to steel.

 

Yeah, crazy.  Never thought that could be a problem.  I certainly learned a lot. Def steel for my next build too.  

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2 hours ago, Team Infiniti said:

WTHeck are you talking about, a recert is hardly what anyone would call all new.

 

We aint bombing around in clunkers like the first events of 2010, things evolve, we are all faster then ever.

 

Window nets and belts are marked 4 (5 years for FIA), the bottle will be 2 to re-cert, suit/pants/gloves indefinite if I keep them pristine.

 

I too am mostly about personal responsibility but a little helping hand will keep me safer from myself. Thank You BCCR!

Good thing I didn't explain myself further so all you guys could be all indignant 'n stuff. Let me expand on what I was getting at.

 

How much tighter will the regs get? Specifically, when will fire suits and fuel cells be on the clock?

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Snorman said:

You think that requiring the bottle to be recertified every two years for ~$100 is onerous? 

There have been a few fires. A racer had 2nd and 3rd degree burns on over 25% of his body because the race car's fire suppression system "did not function". I just can't fathom why there are complaints about safety items the series is implementing to help increase safety. 

S. 

So how does recertifying bottles fix a stuck cable?

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2 minutes ago, mender said:

So how does recertifying bottles fix a stuck cable?

Oh I agree about the installation. But the recert is relative to the bottle. Honestly, I'm 100% behind a very comprehensive fire system inspection in Tech. 

S. 

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1 minute ago, Snorman said:

Oh I agree about the installation. But the recert is relative to the bottle. Honestly, I'm 100% behind a very comprehensive fire system inspection in Tech. 

S. 

To me, a proper inspection by tech is more useful than requiring more stringent bottle certification. 

 

Does anyone have data on how many 3 year-old bottles fail to operate as well as a 2 year-old bottle?

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36 minutes ago, mender said:

fire suits

Will likely never happen as suits universally have no date tag, fuel cell, hmmm one thing at a time.

 

27 minutes ago, mender said:

Does anyone have data on how many 3 year-old bottles fail to operate as well as a 2 year-old bottle?

No clue but would consider pulling the handle on our 4 yr old system (5 in 2020) if people here want to donate the used value of our unit (was planning on ebay selling)

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40 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said:

Will likely never happen as suits universally have no date tag, fuel cell, hmmm one thing at a time.

 

No clue but would consider pulling the handle on our 4 yr old system (5 in 2020) if people here want to donate the used value of our unit (was planning on ebay selling)

I've got a couple bottles from about ten years ago that I'm pretty sure will make quite a mess if I trigger them.

 

Which is why I question the need for a 2 year expiry date.

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9 hours ago, mender said:

Sounds like there's a story there; tell me more. :)

Not really.  I believe the video was posted here somewhere.

 

I noticed the car was on fire going up the straight away and dove for the corner station.

 

The corner worker had it out in about 2 seconds.  Never needed to pull the fire suppression system.

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10 hours ago, mender said:

I've got a couple bottles from about ten years ago that I'm pretty sure will make quite a mess if I trigger them.

 

Which is why I question the need for a 2 year expiry date.

Why arent they in your car? If your confident they work run them in the other series since you dont run this series and dont have to comply to the rules anyways.  If poop hits the fan and theres a fire, hope your 10yo bottles work. I guess you are willing to risk your car and your life on that.  Some other arent. 

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