enginerd Posted November 24, 2018 Report Share Posted November 24, 2018 (edited) I’m about to lose my mind here. Revision after revision is released and the swap formula is still written incorrectly in the rulebook. I have emailed @chisek, I told @Bill Strong about a month ago, I informed a member of the TAC, but still the formula is wrong. I even included in those messages two options showing exactly what words should be changed or eliminated! W. T. F. Edited November 24, 2018 by enginerd 1 1 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mender Posted November 24, 2018 Report Share Posted November 24, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDChristianson Posted November 24, 2018 Report Share Posted November 24, 2018 Good question Nate. Very good question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee mcoppola Posted November 24, 2018 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted November 24, 2018 1 hour ago, mender said: can't see anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mender Posted November 24, 2018 Report Share Posted November 24, 2018 3 minutes ago, mcoppola said: can't see anything. Picture of the lunar rover with no wheels; "Houston, we have a problem." Seems that the swap calculator is getting nowhere these days... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 6 hours ago, mender said: Picture of the lunar rover with no wheels; "Houston, we have a problem." Seems that the swap calculator is getting nowhere these days... I guess it's no swaps allowed for 2019....... [green font] 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morganf Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 20 hours ago, enginerd said: I’m about to lose my mind here. Revision after revision is released and the swap formula is still written incorrectly in the rulebook. I have emailed @chisek, I told @Bill Strong about a month ago, I informed a member of the TAC, but still the formula is wrong. I even included in those messages two options showing exactly what words should be changed or eliminated! W. T. F. Agreed it such a simple and obvious mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Bill Strong Posted November 25, 2018 Administrators Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 The calculator is correct. It will not be changed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 (edited) So glad we don't have to deal with this Edited November 25, 2018 by Snake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDChristianson Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 18 minutes ago, Bill Strong said: The calculator is correct. It will not be changed. except for using the 2019 vpi points?? I hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Bill Strong Posted November 25, 2018 Administrators Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 The 2019 points will be updated on jan 1, 2019. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morganf Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Bill Strong said: The calculator is correct. It will not be changed. But rule 4.5.2 is worded wrong causing unnecessary confusion. Hint: Original HP in not used/needed anywhere in the calculator online or in the rule book Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginerd Posted November 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 2 hours ago, Bill Strong said: The calculator is correct. It will not be changed. The online calculator is correct, but the rulebook formula needs to be corrected to match it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron_e Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 2 hours ago, Bill Strong said: The 2019 points will be updated on jan 1, 2019. Meaning the VPI is set to change again and will only be set as of Jan 1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankrehnelt Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 If the calculator stays the same but the 2019 values will be used that will mean a 1985 BMW 318i with a 225hp m54 3 liter will start at 356 points? I have both of these sitting in my bone yard. Do I need to get started on it or should I wait? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron_e Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 (edited) 52 minutes ago, frankrehnelt said: If the calculator stays the same but the 2019 values will be used that will mean a 1985 BMW 318i with a 225hp m54 3 liter will start at 356 points? I have both of these sitting in my bone yard. Do I need to get started on it or should I wait? Why only swap in 225 hp? If it only results in 356 points you will soon be outgunned. You need more. Edited November 25, 2018 by Ron_e Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Infiniti Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 1 hour ago, frankrehnelt said: If the calculator stays the same but the 2019 values will be used that will mean a 1985 BMW 318i with a 225hp m54 3 liter will start at 356 points? I have both of these sitting in my bone yard. Do I need to get started on it or should I wait? I would hold on a minute, at least after Sebring where I run similar plans by tech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABR-Glen Posted November 26, 2018 Report Share Posted November 26, 2018 2 hours ago, frankrehnelt said: If the calculator stays the same but the 2019 values will be used that will mean a 1985 BMW 318i with a 225hp m54 3 liter will start at 356 points? I have both of these sitting in my bone yard. Do I need to get started on it or should I wait? I think the current state is that the 2019 vpi has been published, but the online calculators aren't using those values yet since there are still 2018 races to run. The swap math isn't changing, but 4.5.6 is back in play, so your 318 swap is a pipedream. Sounds like some of these details are still under consideration though and I hope they find a better solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankrehnelt Posted November 26, 2018 Report Share Posted November 26, 2018 5 minutes ago, ABR-Glen said: I think the current state is that the 2019 vpi has been published, but the online calculators aren't using those values yet since there are still 2018 races to run. The swap math isn't changing, but 4.5.6 is back in play, so your 318 swap is a pipedream. Sounds like some of these details are still under consideration though and I hope they find a better solution. 4.5.6 v2018 is still in place for 2019 but not for 944s? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABR-Glen Posted November 26, 2018 Report Share Posted November 26, 2018 2 hours ago, frankrehnelt said: 4.5.6 v2018 is still in place for 2019 but not for 944s? I wish I knew. I've been trying to get clarification on 4.5.6 for most of the year. It seems like there was at least a gradual increase in the way it was applied through the year. I know they regretted some of the values that got through tech early in the year, and obviously there was some changes in tech personnel and the forming of the TAC, so I'll cut them some slack for 2018 "inconsistency" , but there's really no good reason we can have something better in place before 2019 starts. Clearly there is some indication that I'm not alone in that opinion based on the delay in the release of the swap calculator and the late revision of the bccr to put 4.5.6 back in. Hopefully there's still time for a "fully baked" solution instead of letting it ride with no (written) changes from 2018. The thing that I'm most sure of about 4.5.6 and how it's applied is that it will never help a BMW team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankrehnelt Posted November 26, 2018 Report Share Posted November 26, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, ABR-Glen said: The thing that I'm most sure of about 4.5.6 and how it's applied is that it will never help a BMW team. As it probably shouldn’t. Full disclosure, I really like the swap 944s and MR2s. If those idiots can make it work more power to them......but, when some deep pocket squad gets a hold of it the mob will and should go nuts. Balance......glad I’m not in charge. Good luck to y’all. It’s a hard job but I think y’all are doing great. I get to race Daytona and Indianapolis next year. No F’in’ joke. Edited November 26, 2018 by frankrehnelt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Andrew D Johnson Posted November 26, 2018 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted November 26, 2018 On 11/24/2018 at 11:29 AM, enginerd said: I’m about to lose my mind here. Revision after revision is released and the swap formula is still written incorrectly in the rulebook. I have emailed @chisek, I told @Bill Strong about a month ago, I informed a member of the TAC, but still the formula is wrong. I even included in those messages two options showing exactly what words should be changed or eliminated! W. T. F. Correcting the formula was discussed by the TAC and passed on to the BOD as a recommended change for 2019. It was denied by the BOD on 9/25/2019. If you want to know why it was denied you would have to ask people on the BOD. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer7x Posted November 26, 2018 Report Share Posted November 26, 2018 (edited) It's already been stated by management that the 944 won't have to abide by the 4.5.6 swap rules and is exempt... It needs to reflect this in the bccr swap rules so new teams looking to build a car for the series know that 944's can swap in the 3.0 liter motor with no penalty and not kept a secret... "Transparency" needs to be the organizations 2019 goal and the secret agreements need to be a thing of the past, as in this platform swap and no point headers for all swapped cars... Edited November 26, 2018 by Racer7x 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginerd Posted November 26, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Racer7x said: It needs to reflect this in the bccr swap rules so new teams looking to build a car for the series know that 944's can swap in the 3.0 liter motor Just expanding a little bit... you can swap ANY engine into the base 944 and still start with base 944 points. I’m sure there are much better options than the 3.0 Porsche engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Originalsterm Posted November 26, 2018 Report Share Posted November 26, 2018 2 minutes ago, enginerd said: Just expanding a little bit... you can swap ANY engine into the base 944 and still start with base 944 points. I’m sure there are much better options than the 3.0 Porsche engine. Back in my Porsche days I remember the LT1/LS1 swaps being pretty popular. Not sure how they handle though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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