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A 1987 944 with a swap 208hp S2 motor is 425 points. A 1987 944S with its original 187hp four valve is 475 points. Same car but for the engine. At least throw us a bone and make them start at 400 points (its on the same line). 

Edited by frankrehnelt
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Just checked Hondas: my '95 Civic weight got adjusted down from 2181 lbs to 2044 lbs. I was expecting to see it get adjusted up to match the E30 example by using the heaviest model in the line-up. Also, could someone tell me why '95 Civics are listed three times, with two different weights and VPis?

 

I guess Toyota was too far down the weight list to fix.

Edited by mender
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Also, regarding the MR2, this article does a nice job of pointing out the differences between the NA and Turbo models.  After reading it, and seeing how our car was considered a plat from swap I am in support of the MR2 taking the turbo value.  Please Read

 

Reasons as follows:  NA8 Miatas had a stronger diff, larger rear axels, different engine, different cooling setup, different sway bars, stock rear strut brace, stock front and rear subframe braces.  By TAC, that constituted a platfrom swayp.

 

MR2 Turbo has a stronger transaxel, different engine, larger radiator, different sway bars, rear engine bay xbrace, larger rear axels.

 

Tell me how once you strip the car down you can tell the difference?

 

944 vs 944S is very similar.

 

Why can we not get past the point that once you pull out the drive train and have both bodies sitting next to each other they are in essence the same?  Springs, shocks, bushings, ecu, etc are all basically free.  Don't cry that you don't have the same axels, trans, or diff, or sway bars, etc!  318 e30's don't, NA6 Miata's don't, same as others that are getting hit. 

 

This really needs to be addressed and an actual legitimate reason presented as to why it is not being applied equally.

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14 minutes ago, mender said:

Just checked Hondas: my '95 Civic weight got adjusted down from 2181 lbs to 2044 lbs. I was expecting to see it get adjusted up to match the E30 example by using the heaviest model in the line-up.

  

BMW wins again!

 

I will look into this. 

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Remember the Turbo models are a separate line item now and are not considered in the 4.5.6.  You can start with a turbo model to get your free oil coolers and other items but if you are swapping a NA motor into a NA car use the highest considered model.  We are not considering the turbos the highest model.  

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4 minutes ago, E. Tyler Pedersen said:

Remember the Turbo models are a separate line item now and are not considered in the 4.5.6.  You can start with a turbo model to get your free oil coolers and other items but if you are swapping a NA motor into a NA car use the highest considered model.  We are not considering the turbos the highest model.  

Then why is the MR2 swap using the turbo weight?

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3 minutes ago, E. Tyler Pedersen said:

Remember the Turbo models are a separate line item now and are not considered in the 4.5.6.  You can start with a turbo model to get your free oil coolers and other items but if you are swapping a NA motor into a NA car use the highest considered model.  We are not considering the turbos the highest model.  

I understand that.  However, if we used the turbo vpi I would still get the free coolers with my swap so it is moot in a way.  I mean, we now get all the NA8 parts free and are considered of equal starting performance?  Just trying to understand a bit more...especially when the NA power is equal or more than the turbo power??

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1 minute ago, hotchkis23 said:

I understand that.  However, if we used the turbo vpi I would still get the free coolers with my swap so it is moot in a way.  I mean, we now get all the NA8 parts free and are considered of equal starting performance?  Just trying to understand a bit more...especially when the NA power is equal or more than the turbo power??

 

You can use the turbo VPI if you want to get the free coolers.  The thought is if you are swapping in a NA motor for NA motor then it should be highest value of a NA motor.  If you want to swap in a turbo for another turbo add your VPI fixed list or start with the turbo model VPI.  

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So for the NA6 model, can I now use any NA8 parts if I swap the engine since I have to use the NA8 value? Sad I just bought a VVT engine to swap in but now swapped 1.8 miatas have a HUGE advantage over swapped 1.6 miatas. More fuel and limited slip. 

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Just now, cowboys647 said:

So for the NA6 model, can I now use any NA8 parts if I swap the engine since I have to use the NA8 value? Sad I just bought a VVT engine to swap in but now swapped 1.8 miatas have a HUGE advantage over swapped 1.6 miatas. More fuel and limited slip. 

That's precisely how @Jer just explained it in another post... if you swap an NA6 Miata, you get to treat it as a "platform swap" and get the beefier/bigger/etc NA8 stuff "free"... just with the 50 point higher starting VPI

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2 minutes ago, cowboys647 said:

So for the NA6 model, can I now use any NA8 parts if I swap the engine since I have to use the NA8 value? Sad I just bought a VVT engine to swap in but now swapped 1.8 miatas have a HUGE advantage over swapped 1.6 miatas. More fuel and limited slip. 

We get anything that came on the NA8 chassis.

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5 minutes ago, cowboys647 said:

So for the NA6 model, can I now use any NA8 parts if I swap the engine since I have to use the NA8 value? Sad I just bought a VVT engine to swap in but now swapped 1.8 miatas have a HUGE advantage over swapped 1.6 miatas. More fuel and limited slip. 

 

2 minutes ago, Gearhead_42 said:

That's precisely how @Jer just explained it in another post... if you swap an NA6 Miata, you get to treat it as a "platform swap" and get the beefier/bigger/etc NA8 stuff "free"... just with the 50 point higher starting VPI

 

2 minutes ago, hotchkis23 said:

We get anything that came on the NA8 chassis.

 

All of these are correct.  You may use anything with the NA8 if you are swapping.  If you have a stock 1.6 that is fine, but you can put in a 1.8 in your earlier Miata and start with the 1.8 value and all of the goodies from that model.  Start taking out your displacement blocks :) 

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1 hour ago, frankrehnelt said:

A 1987 944 with a swap 208hp S2 motor is 425 points. A 1987 944S with its original 187hp four valve is 475 points. Same car but for the engine. At least throw us a bone and make them start at 400 points (its on the same line). 

Also, as pointed out earlier....all 1995+ Integras start with the Type-R 450pts.....how is a Type-R vs. GSR not the same as a 944 vs. 944S?  Integras got boned hard!

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1 hour ago, frankrehnelt said:

A 1987 944 with a swap 208hp S2 motor is 425 points. A 1987 944S with its original 187hp four valve is 475 points. Same car but for the engine. At least throw us a bone and make them start at 400 points (its on the same line). 

Transmission is different. 

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20 minutes ago, hotchkis23 said:

Also, as pointed out earlier....all 1995+ Integras start with the Type-R 450pts.....how is a Type-R vs. GSR not the same as a 944 vs. 944S?  Integras got boned hard!

 

Integras are done properly. 

I have never understood why the MR2 turbski or the 944S or even (S2) are exempt. 

 

In comparison to those two car, they get boned hard......yes.  

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Just now, red0 said:

 

Integras are done properly. 

I have never understood why the MR2 turbski or the 944S or even (S2) are exempt. 

 

In comparison to those two car, they get boned hard......yes.  

That was really my whole point.  I hope this all can be remedied.

 

I agree the Integras are done right, just like I agree our car is as well.

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1 hour ago, frankrehnelt said:

A 1987 944 with a swap 208hp S2 motor is 425 points. A 1987 944S with its original 187hp four valve is 475 points. Same car but for the engine. At least throw us a bone and make them start at 400 points (its on the same line). 

an 87 944 w/ a 190 (giggle) hp 350 is 401 points. 

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1 hour ago, hotchkis23 said:

Also, regarding the MR2, this article does a nice job of pointing out the differences between the NA and Turbo models.  After reading it, and seeing how our car was considered a plat from swap I am in support of the MR2 taking the turbo value.  Please Read

 

Reasons as follows:  NA8 Miatas had a stronger diff, larger rear axels, different engine, different cooling setup, different sway bars, stock rear strut brace, stock front and rear subframe braces.  By TAC, that constituted a platfrom swayp.

 

MR2 Turbo has a stronger transaxel, different engine, larger radiator, different sway bars, rear engine bay xbrace, larger rear axels.

 

Tell me how once you strip the car down you can tell the difference?

 

944 vs 944S is very similar.

 

Why can we not get past the point that once you pull out the drive train and have both bodies sitting next to each other they are in essence the same?  Springs, shocks, bushings, ecu, etc are all basically free.  Don't cry that you don't have the same axels, trans, or diff, or sway bars, etc!  318 e30's don't, NA6 Miata's don't, same as others that are getting hit. 

 

This really needs to be addressed and an actual legitimate reason presented as to why it is not being applied equally.

"Tell me how once you strip the car down you can tell the difference?" ummmm the VIN??? just a guess. 

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3 minutes ago, TiredBirds said:

"Tell me how once you strip the car down you can tell the difference?" ummmm the VIN??? just a guess. 

VIN doesnt matter.  You can remove it if you want.

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1 hour ago, E. Tyler Pedersen said:

The thought is if you are swapping in a NA motor for NA motor then it should be highest value of a NA motor.  If you want to swap in a turbo for another turbo add your VPI fixed list or start with the turbo model VPI.  

 

So why isn't it applied that way to the 944?

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26 minutes ago, Ronh911 said:

Transmission is different. 

 

E30s have different transmissions as well but still have to take the highest 325i models when swapping.

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5 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

VIN doesnt matter.  You can remove it if you want.

well then make it illegal to remove. There are other stamping on the body... but really why go thru the hassle? 

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