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I am looking for feedback on the point value of Engine Dry Sumps.  Champcar has them listed as 100 points which I feel is incredibly to high.  I bring this up for selfish reasons.  We just recently lost our 3rd engine in 4 years with Champcar due to the known 944/928/968 issue of the #2 rod bearing crankshaft oiling issue.   What do we feel would be a better number (if different).

 

Thanks for any feedback

Ron

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Uh, isn't a dry sump like several actual dollars?  

 

The entire reason the dry sump was Invented was to lower the mass of an engine.  A bous point was for engine reliability.

 

Accusumps, baffles, etc are for oil control.  If you are running those and still have issues, I'd say there is a major flaw with the oiling system that not even a dry sump will fix.

 

I am personally fine with the value and maybe even think it's a bit low if we look at actual costs. (Which we don't for some reason)

 

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9 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Uh, isn't a dry sump like several actual dollars?  

 

The entire reason the dry sump was Invented was to lower the mass of an engine.  A bous point was for engine reliability.

 

Accusumps, baffles, etc are for oil control.  If you are running those and still have issues, I'd say there is a major flaw with the oiling system that not even a dry sump will fix.

 

I am personally fine with the value and maybe even think it's a bit low if we look at actual costs. (Which we don't for some reason)

 

 

You’re right Rob they are cubic dollars but I would actually be ahead right now if I didn’t need to replace 3 engines.  There IS a major flaw in the design of the 944 crankshaft and oiling system.  Thanks for the feedback.

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5 minutes ago, Bill Strong said:

Free!!!!

 

 

I kid.  Just run a toyota engine in it.

 

I might, we can’t afford to keep replacing these boat anchors.   I’m doing research now while I recover from surgery.

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1 hour ago, Ronh911 said:

 

I might, we can’t afford to keep replacing these boat anchors.   I’m doing research now while I recover from surgery.

If you are doing an engine swap, and claiming it like a normal engine swap, like you have been for a while now, why the heck do you replace the Porsche engine with..... another Porsche engine?

Or are you guys now running an unswapped 944s with 944s engine?

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Drop an LX9 engine in it: cheap like borscht (less than 100,000 miles for $160 on car-part.com) and no oiling issues. 201 hp rating. 

 

 

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9 hours ago, mender said:

Drop an LX9 engine in it: cheap like borscht (less than 100,000 miles for $160 on car-part.com) and no oiling issues. 201 hp rating. 

 

 

This is kinda what I was thinking.

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24 minutes ago, karman1970 said:

 

GM V6 swap everything!!!

Damn right!

 

Cheap.  Bulletproof.  Make decent power all the way from 130 hp up to 240hp depending on engine.  Fwd, rwd,  mid engine, narrow, not too tall, manual trans and auto available.  Parts are cheap.  Go fast parts are available.  Etc....  etc...

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You bust his balls for having a swap, so he takes it out to put the unreliable engine back in that he was trying to avoid, and now you want him to swap again, nice :)

 

Maybe he could trade fuel capacity for a dry sump :P

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Well aware of the Porsche #2 rod flaw but for this series, accumulators are a more realistic conversation.

 

My .02

Dry sump should remain difficult.

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15 hours ago, enginerd said:

If you are doing an engine swap, and claiming it like a normal engine swap, like you have been for a while now, why the heck do you replace the Porsche engine with..... another Porsche engine?

Or are you guys now running an unswapped 944s with 944s engine?

Because then we wouldn't be "Porsche pure".  We don't run a swap anymore now though.
 

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14 hours ago, mender said:

Drop an LX9 engine in it: cheap like borscht (less than 100,000 miles for $160 on car-part.com) and no oiling issues. 201 hp rating. 

 

 

Thanks Mender, I was hoping you might respond (even though you're not a member).  :ph34r:

Edited by Ronh911
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18 minutes ago, Ronh911 said:

Thanks Mender, I was hoping you might respond (even though your not a member).  :ph34r:

The 944 is one of the cars that I would seriously consider for the next build but would get an immediate engine swap. Great potential!

 

I think this would be a lot cheaper than a dry sump:

https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-944-951-968-forum/802262-944-rod-bearing-fix.html

 

Not a true fix of the main issues (no pun intended!) but should extend the usable life.

Edited by mender

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2 minutes ago, mender said:

The 944 is one of the cars that I would seriously consider for the next build but would get an immediate engine swap. Great potential!

I'm trying to fight the swap urge, the S and S2 engine are fantastic except for the "throwing the rod through the block issue". lol

 

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55 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said:

Well aware of the Porsche #2 rod flaw but for this series, accumulators are a more realistic conversation.

 

My .02

Dry sump should remain difficult.

Thanks for the input Ed, we may end up going that route with the accumulator, we have the points for it.

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8 minutes ago, Ronh911 said:

I'm trying to fight the swap urge, the S and S2 engine are fantastic except for the "throwing the rod through the block issue". lol

 

An interesting study albeit on the 928 block:

http://jenniskens.livedsl.nl/Technical/Tips/Files/Problems of lubrication of the connecting rod bearings 2.pdf

 

Seems to suggest that a side-oiler fix might help. 

Edited by mender

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18 minutes ago, Ronh911 said:

Thanks for the input Ed, we may end up going that route with the accumulator, we have the points for it.

Researched it quite some time ago, I hope a accumulator is a viable answer, dry sump legality/cheap points opens up too many cans of worms here.

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39 minutes ago, mender said:

An interesting study albeit on the 928 block:

http://jenniskens.livedsl.nl/Technical/Tips/Files/Problems of lubrication of the connecting rod bearings 2.pdf

 

Seems to suggest that a side-oiler fix might help. 

Same problem as the 944 except its #2 and #6.  I've read MANY technical articles on this issue and after 30+ years there still is no "do this" and you will have no issues anymore.

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Just now, Ronh911 said:

Same problem as the 944 except its #2 and #6.  I've read MANY technical articles on this issue and after 30+ years there still is no "do this" and you will have no issues anymore.

I've run a few engines that are known for their oiling issues but not a 944. Always interesting to see the tests and solutions that others have done!

 

A steady supply of non-aerated temp controlled oil is what every engine wants to survive in racing conditions. :)

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2 minutes ago, mender said:

I've run a few engines that are known for their oiling issues but not a 944. Always interesting to see the tests and solutions that others have done!

 

A steady supply of non-aerated temp controlled oil is what every engine wants to survive in racing conditions. :)

 

Areation (or whatever it's called) is just a function of time right? So if you change oil after 8hours it's unlikely the oil has gone bad?

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Just now, mender said:

I've run a few engines that are known for their oiling issues but not a 944. Always interesting to see the tests and solutions that others have done!

 

A steady supply of non-aerated temp controlled oil is what every engine wants to survive in racing conditions. :)

This is the problem, aerated oil, I use a HUGE oil cooler and we very rarely see oil temps over 190.  But the crank causes the oil to separate and form layers on #2 and the way that its fed the air/oil layer reaches that bearing before the heavy oil layer. That's why I never put an accusump in the car, it's not going to help this separation problem.

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