Fuel Vent Setups

[LuckyKid]

Does anyone have pictures of what this looks like?

 

9.10.4. Over-flow vents may be installed. Over-flow vents MUST:
 9.10.4.1. Exit at the rear of the car;
 9.10.4.2. Be constructed of a gasoline-resistant hose, no larger 
than 3/4” (0.75”) inside diameter;
 9.10.4.3. Be securely attached to a 3/4” outside diameter, 
tubular, metal bulkhead that extends no less than 4” 
and no more than 6” inside the car and extends no 
more less than 4” and no more than 6” outside the 
rear panel/bulkhead of the car;
 9.10.4.4. Allow positive and secure MECHANICAL attachment 
of a sealed overflow can with a minimum liquid 
capacity of 1-gallon (US);
 9.10.4.5. No hand-held overflow cans. No overflow can may 
spill fuel upon attachment or removal; and
 9.10.4.6. Use of an overflow vent and overflow can DOES NOT 
remove the requirement for a ground- positioned 
catch pan for spills.

 

 

 

I am reading we need a ~10" metal tube (3/4") that extends 5" in the car and 5" out of the car.  Then we need to attach a sealed container to it while fueling.  I am not sure what the meaning of bulkhead is when referring to the tube.  I believe I understand that the tube itself needs to attach to a bulkhead.  

 

For the sealed container, are we allowed to dry break?  Can the sealed container itself be vented(otherwise how would the vent system actually work)?

[mcoppola]

That section of the BCCR seems to be written to somewhat emulate the system Nascar used to use before they did away with vent/catch cans. 

I don't know if I've ever seen a car with the type of system described, but there may be a few out there... 

If anyone would have the answer, it might be 1 of our Tech guys @Ray Franck who (I think) has a circle track & Nascar background.

This rule is not worded very well, as you pointed out, how can a tube be a bulkhead? I think the tube has to pass through a bulkhead, as it says in the latter part of 9.10.4.3

edit: As you said, the sealed container used as a catch can would have to have a vent on it to actually work correctly.

 

Edited March 9, 2019 by mcoppola

[JDChristianson]

2 hours ago, LuckyKid said:

Does anyone have pictures of what this looks like?

 

9.10.4. Over-flow vents may be installed. Over-flow vents MUST:
 9.10.4.1. Exit at the rear of the car;
 9.10.4.2. Be constructed of a gasoline-resistant hose, no larger 
than 3/4” (0.75”) inside diameter;
 9.10.4.3. Be securely attached to a 3/4” outside diameter, 
tubular, metal bulkhead that extends no less than 4” 
and no more than 6” inside the car and extends no 
more less than 4” and no more than 6” outside the 
rear panel/bulkhead of the car;
 9.10.4.4. Allow positive and secure MECHANICAL attachment 
of a sealed overflow can with a minimum liquid 
capacity of 1-gallon (US);
 9.10.4.5. No hand-held overflow cans. No overflow can may 
spill fuel upon attachment or removal; and
 9.10.4.6. Use of an overflow vent and overflow can DOES NOT 
remove the requirement for a ground- positioned 
catch pan for spills.

 

 

 

I am reading we need a ~10" metal tube (3/4") that extends 5" in the car and 5" out of the car.  Then we need to attach a sealed container to it while fueling.  I am not sure what the meaning of bulkhead is when referring to the tube.  I believe I understand that the tube itself needs to attach to a bulkhead.  

 

For the sealed container, are we allowed to dry break?  Can the sealed container itself be vented(otherwise how would the vent system actually work)?

I think Cone Crushers has this system going on.   It’s a nascar type thing with no dry break   Their’s vents out the back.   It might be tricky to do on your car since you samurai chopped the rear 1/3rd of the car off.    

Edited March 9, 2019 by JDChristianson

[TBone]

I've thought about using a Ford capless fuel filler neck as an overflow vent. You could make a container to plug into it. And it's sealed when not in use.

[Jer]

I’m still trying to sort this on my Miata as well.  Now I’m really confused.  Dang. 

[Mopar 4 Life]

I went a different way with my current car. I have a access hatch that I open up to see my ATL discriminator valve. Once I see the valve filling up I know I am full. The valve is set as low as possible to th fill plate to ensure I don’t fill up the fill neck. I went this way because I know one day this will be a rule. 

 

With this method I don’t really have any spills and I have a visual indication of when I am nearing full.

[Jer]

9 hours ago, JDChristianson said:

I think Cone Crushers has this system going on.   It’s a nascar type thing with no dry break   Their’s vents out the back.   It might be tricky to do on your car since you samurai chopped the rear 1/3rd of the car off.    

Any photos of Cone Crusher’s solution??

Edited March 10, 2019 by Jer

[JDChristianson]

1 hour ago, Jer said:

Any photos of Cone Crusher’s solution??

I do not.   I have just watched it in action.  

 

[Jer]

After going to the rules for context, I believe this is strictly for the addition of fuel cells, not relocating the stock fuel vent line. I have a rollover valve in mine which shoul do the trick on a stock setup.  

[scottyk]

20 minutes ago, Jer said:

After going to the rules for context, I believe this is strictly for the addition of fuel cells, not relocating the stock fuel vent line. I have a rollover valve in mine which shoul do the trick on a stock setup.  

Correct

[Indysupra]

Yea I’m not following it either. 

[LuckyKid]

2 hours ago, Jer said:

After going to the rules for context, I believe this is strictly for the addition of fuel cells, not relocating the stock fuel vent line. I have a rollover valve in mine which shoul do the trick on a stock setup.  

I don't see that, but sometimes the rules aren't clear about sections and subsections but I see it as:

 

9.10 - Fuel Systems

  9.10.1 - No Leaks

  9.10.2 - Fuel Tanks and Cells

  9.10.3 - Fuel Fillers and Fuel Lines

  9.10.4 - Overflow Vents

 

Thus 9.10.4 is a subset of Fuel Systems but not cells in particular.  

 

Tech has asked us to move our vent to a bulkhead by 4/26/19 - I am trying to get more clarity in the rules before I put together a proposed solution to send to tech.

[karman1970]

4 hours ago, Jer said:

After going to the rules for context, I believe this is strictly for the addition of fuel cells, not relocating the stock fuel vent line. I have a rollover valve in mine which shoul do the trick on a stock setup.  

2016 says vents may be built for fuel cells only.  My copies of the 2017 and 2018 rules are written like 2019, vents are their own separate subsection and make no mention of fuel cells anywhere.

[Ron_e]

Read 9.10.4 again: "May" be installed.  This has always been there in the rules.  We have run a cell since 2014 with just a vent line, this year adding a catch can on the vent line. 

 

As @mcoppola said this is meant for use during the fueling process if you choose and are filling so fast that it burps out the vent to a catch can, see 9.10.4.5 regarding "hand-held", obviously your driver is not going to be holding an overflow can while driving, this is during the fueling process.

[scottyk]

Post a picture of your current setup and I’m sure someone will tell you how/where to place it

[LuckyKid]

1 hour ago, scottyk said:

Post a picture of your current setup and I’m sure someone will tell you how/where to place it

Ha!  So long as it passes tech.

[Jer]

8 hours ago, karman1970 said:

2016 says vents may be built for fuel cells only.  My copies of the 2017 and 2018 rules are written like 2019, vents are their own separate subsection and make no mention of fuel cells anywhere.

My stock tank has a vent line.  In relocating my fill, I also need to relocate the vent line.  

[scottyk]

2 hours ago, LuckyKid said:

Ha!  So long as it passes tech.

You posted the question not me, just trying to help.

[LuckyKid]

3 minutes ago, scottyk said:

You posted the question not me, just trying to help.

I was just rolling with the Innuendo.  If you genuinely want to help, I'll get pics up tomorrow.

 

Txs

[morganf]

15 hours ago, LuckyKid said:

I don't see that, but sometimes the rules aren't clear about sections and subsections but I see it as:

 

9.10 - Fuel Systems

  9.10.1 - No Leaks

  9.10.2 - Fuel Tanks and Cells

  9.10.3 - Fuel Fillers and Fuel Lines

  9.10.4 - Overflow Vents

 

Thus 9.10.4 is a subset of Fuel Systems but not cells in particular.  

Tech has asked us to move our vent to a bulkhead by 4/26/19 - I am trying to get more clarity in the rules before I put together a proposed solution to send to tech.

Yeah "sometimes"

[Bremsen]

On 3/9/2019 at 8:46 AM, LuckyKid said:

I am reading we need a ~10" metal tube (3/4") that extends 5" in the car and 5" out of the car.  Then we need to attach a sealed container to it while fueling.  I am not sure what the meaning of bulkhead is when referring to the tube.  I believe I understand that the tube itself needs to attach to a bulkhead.  

 

For the sealed container, are we allowed to dry break?  Can the sealed container itself be vented(otherwise how would the vent system actually work)?

 

I have a setup that uses both the flapper vent and catch can from a latemodel stock car.

 

This is the vent that section is referring, and similar to the one on my car:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-CV-Products-Billet-Aluminum-Fuel-Cell-Vent-Overflow-Check-Flapper-Valve-E1/192699001428?hash=item2cddc16a54:g:8RAAAOSwPCVX4UQ7&frcectupt=true

 

It uses a catch can with a probe to open the flapper when fueling.  Like this:

https://tinyurl.com/y3r22uc5

 

My main confusion is the 3/4" tube statement, since all of the standard NASCAR vent stuff is 1.5"OD.  I'm going to machine a spacer to place in the vent hose to limit the ID to 3/4", which I hope will satisfy the rules lawyers.  Other than that, I love the setup.  Its simple and effective and we never spill a drop.

 

[Fitsbain]

On 3/9/2019 at 9:44 AM, mcoppola said:

I don't know if I've ever seen a car with the type of system described, but there may be a few out there...

Miata teem next to us at Nelson, had this arrangement. There hunsuckers had a foam seal. When the catch can started taking fuel, the car was full.