thewheelerZ Posted July 24, 2019 Report Share Posted July 24, 2019 Ok, so following racing both days at Watkins, plus a short test day we found our front tires (two heat cycles/test days, heavy FWD car) to be evenly worn with lots of tread left. We just raced at Shannonville Motorsports park in 32 degree heat. We were reusing those tires from WGI. No tire temps from either of the race days. The result was significantly reduced grip. About 5 hours into the race We swapped the tires out for a set of stickers and went faster. When the old tires came off, they were nice and warm (if not hot), had little to no increased wear and werent even sticky to the touch. The tires had gone full hockey puck/cement on us. So how can we avoid (or reduce) that and keep the sticky longer? Do you guys typically see the tires losing their grip before wearing out of tread? Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted July 24, 2019 Report Share Posted July 24, 2019 I have thought this might be possible with the rs4 tires. They wear like iron! That being said, I think we are seeing this situation happen more because people are taking better care of their tires through better alignments and tire pressures, as well as wider wheels and tires. All of these factors help tire wear and overall grip. The downside may be that the tires will have a chance at cycling out. You may have found that spot. Maybe try some tire softening stuff? More likely, they are spent for ultimate grip, but might be good for track days. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewheelerZ Posted July 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2019 Its not the first time its happened. Makes me think its time for me to start abusing my tires with more vigor! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slugworks Paul Posted July 24, 2019 Report Share Posted July 24, 2019 (edited) Up until IMS weekend, I had never worn a set of RS4s below 50%. I did at IMS and I will say I was not at all impressed, I experienced what you described with drastically lower grip, and lap times that dropped nearly 3-4 seconds a lap. They never wore down to the cords and still had tread life, but grip was gone. This manifested the last stint of both days. Edited July 24, 2019 by Slugworks Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDChristianson Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 By the last stint of the day the track temp was also very hot, the tire had been very hot for a very long time, a lot of cars had been putting hot slimy rubber down all day( especially the cars running re71’s that were down to cords by then) at least one or two cars were oozing fluids to mix with the slimy hot rubber. I’m not sure that’s the best conditions for any tire. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 I saw laptimes off by about 2 or 3 seconds at the end of both days as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginerd Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, JDChristianson said: at least one or two cars were oozing fluids to mix with the slimy hot rubber. Guilty as charged! We lost a quart of oil in the last stint through a gouged / cracked / (haven’t actually inspected it yet) engine oil drain plug after our 4th stint driver dragged the oil pan across one of those huge curbs. (Sorry Indy!!) We had the same driver do stints 1 and 4 on Sunday, he was over a second slower in stint 4 despite having lots of clean laps and few (if any) traffic-free laps in stint 1. Edited July 25, 2019 by enginerd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skierman64 Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 Our times dropped throughout the day, I chalked it up to ambient and track temperature more than the tires falling off. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Infiniti Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 /\This/\ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c_leffe Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, skierman64 said: Our times dropped throughout the day, I chalked it up to ambient and track temperature more than the tires falling off. Our times got worse through the day as well, but the RS4s didn't seem like the culprit. I was actually impressed with how well they held up all day. They were very predictable and had a very controllable slide. I agree that it was likely temperature and track condition related. We were also running out of front brake pads and finished both days on metal so I think that was a significant contributor. Even with metal brake pads, cycled tires and the heat, our best afternoon time was only 1-2 seconds off our best morning time. Edited July 25, 2019 by c_leffe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skierman64 Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, c_leffe said: Our times got worse through the day as well, but the RS4s didn't seem like the culprit. I was actually impressed with how well they held up all day. They were very predictable and had a very controllable slide. I agree that it was likely temperature and track condition related. We were also running out of front brake pads and finished both days on metal so I think that was a significant contributor. Even with metal brake pads, cycled tires and the heat, our best afternoon time was only 1-2 seconds off our best morning time. We started the weekend with 1/3 worn front brakes, and ran all weekend on the same set. Gotta love PFC08s. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c_leffe Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, skierman64 said: We started the weekend with 1/3 worn front brakes, and ran all weekend on the same set. Gotta love PFC08s. We ran PFC97's and started with fresh pads each day. The fronts were metal at the end of the day... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginerd Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 18 minutes ago, c_leffe said: We ran PFC97's and started with fresh pads each day. The fronts were metal at the end of the day... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mopar 4 Life Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 22 hours ago, thewheelerZ said: Ok, so following racing both days at Watkins, plus a short test day we found our front tires (two heat cycles/test days, heavy FWD car) to be evenly worn with lots of tread left. We just raced at Shannonville Motorsports park in 32 degree heat. We were reusing those tires from WGI. No tire temps from either of the race days. The result was significantly reduced grip. About 5 hours into the race We swapped the tires out for a set of stickers and went faster. When the old tires came off, they were nice and warm (if not hot), had little to no increased wear and werent even sticky to the touch. The tires had gone full hockey puck/cement on us. So how can we avoid (or reduce) that and keep the sticky longer? Do you guys typically see the tires losing their grip before wearing out of tread? Thoughts? This has more to do with shanny and heat more than the tires themselves. Be be honest when was the last time you did a track walk at shanny? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erich Posted July 26, 2019 Report Share Posted July 26, 2019 We've done a short cold/wet track day and about 20 hours of racing on our current set of RS4s. They were kicking ass at the last race until the valve guide for cylinder #3 exhaust disappeared and we retired. They've got about 1/3 tread left and we're running them to start a race this weekend. I'll let you know how they do. We're running 245-15 tires on an 1800lb car so that probably has a lot to do with their longevity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slugworks Paul Posted July 26, 2019 Report Share Posted July 26, 2019 (edited) On 7/25/2019 at 10:59 AM, skierman64 said: Our times dropped throughout the day, I chalked it up to ambient and track temperature more than the tires falling off. You clearly didn't drive our car. There was zero grip, best I could do was 4 seconds off my times from the first stint saturday (with more experience and better line knowledge at the track) Track and ambient temps considered, the tires certainly did not handle it well. Edited July 26, 2019 by Slugworks Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skierman64 Posted July 26, 2019 Report Share Posted July 26, 2019 26 minutes ago, Slugworks Paul said: You clearly didn't drive our car. There was zero grip, best I could do was 4 seconds off my times from the first stint saturday (with more experience and better line knowledge at the track) Track and ambient temps considered, the tires certainly did not handle it well. That was our first drive on the RS4. I know the Dunlops never got slower as they wore down. I hope that isn't the case with the Hancooks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slugworks Paul Posted July 26, 2019 Report Share Posted July 26, 2019 1 minute ago, skierman64 said: That was our first drive on the RS4. I know the Dunlops never got slower as they wore down. I hope that isn't the case with the Hancooks. At this point I think i might consider going back to dunlops. RS4s wear very slowly and grip is *okay*.. it was my budget minded choice but if it's gonna cause me to slow down 4+ seconds a lap in the last stint, that means I need to change tires anyway which negates some of the cost savings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skierman64 Posted July 26, 2019 Report Share Posted July 26, 2019 (edited) Need more data before making a decision. Our fastest lap of the weekend was on Sunday morning on the same set of tires we ran all day on Saturday. I tend to think temperature was a bigger factor than wear. In my experience street tires do not get slower with wear, only with heat cycles and age. Edited July 26, 2019 by skierman64 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakks Posted July 26, 2019 Report Share Posted July 26, 2019 Maybe it’s the car? I ran first stint Saturday and then 3rd stint Sunday. Improved by .5 second Sunday with the steering wheel upside down and 3/16” toe out due to contact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zack_280 Posted July 26, 2019 Report Share Posted July 26, 2019 I was on a used set of RS4s at the WRL race at Road Atlanta (about 10hrs on them from Daytona and about 3 hours of testing at Road Atlanta). On the test day I ran a 1:41.xx. I figured race pace would be 1:41s most clean laps, maybe into the 1:39s on a flyer. Our first driver managed to do a few 1:40s. Our second driver was a little slower in the 1:43s. He said the car felt great. I got in the car 3rd and I thought someone had laid oil down in Turns 7 and 10, but it never got less 'slick'. It literally felt like I was hitting oil and sliding through those turns. I think I might have had a few 1:43s, but there wasn't much more I could get out of it. I'm thinking maybe the tires were just toast by then. They still look to have about 50% tread left. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skierman64 Posted July 26, 2019 Report Share Posted July 26, 2019 18 minutes ago, zack_280 said: I was on a used set of RS4s at the WRL race at Road Atlanta (about 10hrs on them from Daytona and about 3 hours of testing at Road Atlanta). On the test day I ran a 1:41.xx. I figured race pace would be 1:41s most clean laps, maybe into the 1:39s on a flyer. Our first driver managed to do a few 1:40s. Our second driver was a little slower in the 1:43s. He said the car felt great. I got in the car 3rd and I thought someone had laid oil down in Turns 7 and 10, but it never got less 'slick'. It literally felt like I was hitting oil and sliding through those turns. I think I might have had a few 1:43s, but there wasn't much more I could get out of it. I'm thinking maybe the tires were just toast by then. They still look to have about 50% tread left. How much did the track temp change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slugworks Paul Posted July 26, 2019 Report Share Posted July 26, 2019 39 minutes ago, skierman64 said: How much did the track temp change? Mike, seems like you’re trying really hard to convince yourself of something. As with all racing recommendations, your mileage will vary and it is always car dependent. My car makes more power than most abs has to put it thru the front wheels. Regardless of track temp I can promise you I’m getting those babies hot. I’ve been Champcar racing for a shade under a decade now and haven’t ever experienced a 4 sec slowdown due to ‘track temperatures’ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Infiniti Posted July 26, 2019 Report Share Posted July 26, 2019 Paul, you’re absolutely right everyone’s mileage may vary, but we too experienced this tire for its first time at Indy, 3/4 seconds difference between morning and night both days on the same tires. Switching from Dunlop 2s to Dunlop 3s was a less happy experience, everyone on the team has agreed that we are going to keep with the Hankook for another few races, general consensus is we have found our new tire. Sebring September and December will be the tell as we are going to be both buying another set of Hankook and recycling what is left over from this race. Hope to talk to you more then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slugworks Paul Posted July 27, 2019 Report Share Posted July 27, 2019 I’ll be at Sebring in December! Looking forward to it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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