When are teams with a history of bad driving going to be addressed?

[MoparBoyy]

After watching a lot of post race videos it seems to include ‘repeat offenders’ 

 

at what point is champ car going to step in and realize that this isn’t a per race basis?

[Originalsterm]

6 minutes ago, MoparBoyy said:

After watching a lot of post race videos it seems to include ‘repeat offenders’ 

 

at what point is champ car going to step in and realize that this isn’t a per race basis?

 

When series favorites are impacted by it?

 

When attendence falls specifically because of it?

 

When something REALLY bad happens and it's on the news?

[MoparBoyy]

I wish I could find on the live stream of the 24 when doc and bill were discussing a team with a history of incidents.

[Bill Strong]

3 minutes ago, MoparBoyy said:

I wish I could find on the live stream of the 24 when doc and bill were discussing a team with a history of incidents.

 

I don't remember that

[Snake]

1 hour ago, Bill Strong said:

 

I don't remember that

 

Around 6pm on Sat. 

[erich]

2 hours ago, Originalsterm said:

 

When series favorites are impacted by it?

 

When attendence falls specifically because of it?

 

When something REALLY bad happens and it's on the news?

You would think that abandoning in the PWN because many racers (us included) didn't like getting hit multiple times per race when we raced Chump might have had an impact on the series.  The complaints fell on deaf ears, they were all "racing incidents."

Reading race recaps it doesn't seem like the Champ management attitude has changed much in what happens on track.

[Racer7x]

16 hours ago, erich said:

You would think that abandoning in the PWN because many racers (us included) didn't like getting hit multiple times per race when we raced Chump might have had an impact on the series.  The complaints fell on deaf ears, they were all "racing incidents."

Reading race recaps it doesn't seem like the Champ management attitude has changed much in what happens on track.

 

So you think with 80 cars on track for 24hrs and half of that in the pitch dark there isn't going to be any contact?

 

Certain teams have always had issues with constantly "running out of talent or being asshats", but for what was just run at VIR, major incidents of contact was not an issue except for one or two instances...

 

Kudos to all teams involved except for a select few that have been called out

 

[Rapido]

This was our third VIR 24hr, and from my own perspective I found the driving standards to have improved each year. May have something to do with the slightly reduced field number this year, but we experienced generally respectful driving, both in traffic (passing and being passed), and when racing hard with similar cars. I think the fact that driving standards are generally improving is what makes these bigger incidents more isolated and stand out more.

[Bill Strong]

I have been racing and involved with ChampCar for 10 years . It is HUGELY better than it was in the early days.
Most of the issues came from experienced sprint racers who just have no clue how to handle cars with either less or more speed. Speed differential issues. 

They are so used to racing with cars of equal speed.

That has always been my take. 

 

[erich]

2 hours ago, Racer7x said:

 

So you think with 80 cars on track for 24hrs and half of that in the pitch dark there isn't going to be any contact?

 

Certain teams have always had issues with constantly "running out of talent or being asshats", but for what was just run at VIR, major incidents of contact was not an issue except for one or two instances...

 

Kudos to all teams involved except for a select few that have been called out

 

No, I don't think there would be zero contact during a race, but when you get hit multiple times a race by asshats dive-bombing you and using your car as their brakes with none of the teams getting black flagged, you get tired of it.  It's not like it was one race either.  Every time we brought out car to an old Chump race we spent time straightening panels.  It was the main reason Chump races were lowest on our list of events to attend.

To give you some perspective, we've been hit a total of one or twice in a dozen Lemons races and got one tire swirl on a door in over a dozen Lucky Dog races.

This is with (mostly) the same group of teams.  It's the up-front "contact will not be tolerated" attitude that seems to keep the idiots in check.

[Racer7x]

2 minutes ago, erich said:

 

It was the main reason Chump races were lowest on our list of events to attend.

 

 

Did you attend the VIR race?

 

It sounds like you found your racing niche out west with Lemons and LD and your happy which is great, but please don't come on here and be negative about this series if you've never run a recent 90 car count 14hr Road Atlanta, 90 car count 14hr Sebring, 120 car count 14hr of Daytona or 110 car count VIR 24hr race...

 

Most of us on this forum have found our niche. It's not running with AER and their $100K cars, nor WRL.

 

I can't say anything bad about LD or Lemons because I've never run with them, but I know for a fact this is some of the best bang for the buck racing going on in the United States right now. Tire Rack thinks so also...

 

Good luck with your racing on the west coast, most of us on the east coast feel sorry for you

 

[Team Infiniti]

14 minutes ago, erich said:

perspective

 You know, it’s funny,  some cars are hardly affected by all this, in our case, 10 years, 40+ races  in the Southeast, we’ve had 5 incidences that required moderate to major surgery,  three of those five incidents were one car accident, our fault, only one required car replacement (2012)  not our fault...

[jakks]

19 minutes ago, erich said:

No, I don't think there would be zero contact during a race, but when you get hit multiple times a race by asshats dive-bombing you and using your car as their brakes with none of the teams getting black flagged, you get tired of it.  It's not like it was one race either.  Every time we brought out car to an old Chump race we spent time straightening panels.  It was the main reason Chump races were lowest on our list of events to attend.

To give you some perspective, we've been hit a total of one or twice in a dozen Lemons races and got one tire swirl on a door in over a dozen Lucky Dog races.

This is with (mostly) the same group of teams.  It's the up-front "contact will not be tolerated" attitude that seems to keep the idiots in check.

Contact is called in by the track staff. ChampCar black flags the cars the corner workers say were involved. If the corner worker can’t determine who was at fault then both parties are called in and it’s figured out then. To place all the blame on the ChampCar staff of today is asinine.

[MMiskoe]

3 hours ago, Bill Strong said:

I have been racing and involved with ChampCar for 10 years . It is HUGELY better than it was in the early days.
Most of the issues came from experienced sprint racers who just have no clue how to handle cars with either less or more speed. Speed differential issues. 

They are so used to racing with cars of equal speed.

That has always been my take. 

 

This attitude does nothing to promote the series.  To say that "we only wrecked your car today, but we used to wreck two or three cars in a race like this" is an insult.  And this is exactly what I was told in 2018 when we got taken out by a car that was ONE-HUNDRED laps down to us.

 

And "because you're a sprint racer you don't know how to get around a slower car"?  Gee thanks for the compliment.  Why is it I did SCCA/EMRA endurance races for 15 years before Champ existed and never had more than a tire doughnut from contact, however I've yet to enter a Champ race that did not include major contact?

 

In an SCCA type race you'll get taken out by someone who is over-zealous about what they can pull off.  In Champcar you get taken out by someone being plain stupid or not paying attention.

 

Watching that video of a guy getting punted off the track at VIR's back straight has me seriously considering why I would bring my car to another race.  But entry is paid, tires delivered and all, so we'll give it another try.

 

 

 

Anyone questioning why there were 20% fewer cars at the VIR race last weekend from 2018 or why there are only 21 cars entered at Nelson?

 

 

[Bill Strong]

1 minute ago, MMiskoe said:

 

 

Anyone questioning why there were 20% fewer cars at the VIR race last weekend from 2018 or why there are only 21 cars entered at Nelson?

 

 

 

 

Indy.

 

and I am just giving you my personal opinion from 10 years of racing with ChampCar. 

Not everyone has misbehaved. but the ones that did get into my car were for the most part experienced road racers from other series.

[TiredBirds]

23 minutes ago, MMiskoe said:

This attitude does nothing to promote the series.  To say that "we only wrecked your car today, but we used to wreck two or three cars in a race like this" is an insult.  And this is exactly what I was told in 2018 when we got taken out by a car that was ONE-HUNDRED laps down to us.

 

And "because you're a sprint racer you don't know how to get around a slower car"?  Gee thanks for the compliment.  Why is it I did SCCA/EMRA endurance races for 15 years before Champ existed and never had more than a tire doughnut from contact, however I've yet to enter a Champ race that did not include major contact?

 

In an SCCA type race you'll get taken out by someone who is over-zealous about what they can pull off.  In Champcar you get taken out by someone being plain stupid or not paying attention.

 

Watching that video of a guy getting punted off the track at VIR's back straight has me seriously considering why I would bring my car to another race.  But entry is paid, tires delivered and all, so we'll give it another try.

 

 

 

Anyone questioning why there were 20% fewer cars at the VIR race last weekend from 2018 or why there are only 21 cars entered at Nelson?

 

 

well we would have been there except we balled up the 84 last year and the 88 isn't ready yet... I think Champs has more of a marketing problem, as the other "cheap" league packs events. 

[The Aero Man]

23 minutes ago, TiredBirds said:

well we would have been there except we balled up the 84 last year and the 88 isn't ready yet... I think Champs has more of a marketing problem, as the other "cheap" league packs events. 

 

[wvumtnbkr]

8 minutes ago, The Aero Man said:

 

Iirc, at a non champcar event.

[erich]

1 hour ago, Racer7x said:

 

Did you attend the VIR race?

 

It sounds like you found your racing niche out west with Lemons and LD and your happy which is great, but please don't come on here and be negative about this series if you've never run a recent 90 car count 14hr Road Atlanta, 90 car count 14hr Sebring, 120 car count 14hr of Daytona or 110 car count VIR 24hr race...

 

Most of us on this forum have found our niche. It's not running with AER and their $100K cars, nor WRL.

 

I can't say anything bad about LD or Lemons because I've never run with them, but I know for a fact this is some of the best bang for the buck racing going on in the United States right now. Tire Rack thinks so also...

 

Good luck with your racing on the west coast, most of us on the east coast feel sorry for you

 

Did I attend VIR?  No.  I live in BC.

As for car counts, we ran in the 218 car Lemons race at Thunderhill. Zero issues.

We ran in the 52 car 36 hour Chump event.  Hit multiple times, including one dickbag who pushed me off the track twice in the same stint.

Most of the races we run in have 60-80 cars on 2.25-2.5 mile courses.  LD races are usually sellouts, Lemons not so much.

It ain't the car count, it's the attitude.

 

I don't mean to slag the current management.  It the races are clean then we'd love to run a Champ race if they return to the PNW.  The main issue is we have budget for three or four races a year.  If we think we're likely to need an extra $500 in repairs or be taken out by another car, we'll have less desire to enter a Champ race.

 

All of the budget series should aspire to zero contact.  None of us are getting paid to drive.  None of us have big sponsors that need to see their car in the winner's circle in the media.  None of us are going to get picked up by Mercedes to drive their F1 cars if we just make that dangerous pass.

We do this for fun.  Chill out.  It's a long race and if you're faster you'll finish ahead.

 

[TiredBirds]

39 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Iirc, at a non champcar event.

no it was not, practice event and our guy went from 3rd to 2nd and the car came around quicker than a heroine addict on Narcan.

49 minutes ago, The Aero Man said:

 

no a chump event practice day at NJ non racing event

[Jamie]

6 hours ago, erich said:

No, I don't think there would be zero contact during a race, but when you get hit multiple times a race by asshats dive-bombing you and using your car as their brakes with none of the teams getting black flagged, you get tired of it.  It's not like it was one race either.  Every time we brought out car to an old Chump race we spent time straightening panels.  It was the main reason Chump races were lowest on our list of events to attend.

To give you some perspective, we've been hit a total of one or twice in a dozen Lemons races and got one tire swirl on a door in over a dozen Lucky Dog races.

This is with (mostly) the same group of teams.  It's the up-front "contact will not be tolerated" attitude that seems to keep the idiots in check.

 

This is a really interesting perspective because I will not race Lem0ns because of the experience with contact that I have had in their series. Contact that I believe is because of the 200+ car count at races (Sonoma/Thill), generally novice drivers, and their rules allowing crazy build that leads to huge delta speeds. I have done 9 lemons races and like 30 Champcar in every region besides the PNW. We have all noticed that most of the PNW chumps are pretty pissed with Chumpcar, most of it with the old management. I also find it interesting you think the contact is a management thing because LD management is the exChumpcar management of the old PNW days. Chisek has 0 tolerance for contact, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. 

 

 

[erich]

19 hours ago, Jamie said:

 

[snip]... We have all noticed that most of the PNW chumps are pretty pissed with Chumpcar, most of it with the old management. I also find it interesting you think the contact is a management thing because LD management is the exChumpcar management of the old PNW days. Chisek has 0 tolerance for contact, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

I don't expect zero contact for everyone for every race, that's just not gonna happen.

 

I think the big difference between old Chump and LD was Condren.

I have personally attended one of Condren's new drivers meeting where everyone was told a little contact is OK so long as it's a racing incident.

LD screams at everyone that it's a non-contact series.

 

In my opinion, that's the difference.

 

As I said, I'd love to race a Champ race if it's clean and at a track our team wants to race at.

[Team Infiniti]

6 minutes ago, erich said:

Condren's new drivers meeting

Color me confused, I was not aware Condren was up to anything endurance related for a few years.

If you’re referring to something that happened five years ago, I’m not sure where the relevance or sour grapes translate to things  happening currently.

Edited August 15, 2019 by Team Infiniti

[FlorahDorah]

14 minutes ago, erich said:

 

LD screams at everyone that it's a non-contact series.

 

Well the race directors don't scream but they say the same thing. No contact. If it's reported by the corner workers, we black flag the offending parties and they are penalized. 

[erich]

6 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said:

Color me confused, I was not aware Condren was up to anything endurance related for a few years.

If you’re referring to something that happened five years ago, I’m not sure where the relevance or sour grapes translate to things  happening currently.

Champ hasn't run a race in the PNW in at least four years, so yes it's old gripes.

However, when I read race recaps there's questions about the amount of contact or a team that's causing problems, look at the title of this thread!

This is why I posted.  Is it still a thing where Chump/Champ has more contact than other budget racing series?  Are the teams or drivers causing contact penalized in any way?

I just want to know how it is on the track, especially it Champ runs at Area 27 next year.