67Mustang Posted September 19, 2019 Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 Some buddies of mine posted this elsewhere, and they also had some pictures showing the belt attachment points failing. Pretty crazy video, but will make me check to make sure the belts and equipment are good stuff and not copies etc.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam Benty Posted September 19, 2019 Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 (edited) That freaking hurt!!! I backed a sprint car into the turn 4 wall at full song and came to a dead stop like this. I could not breath for what seemed like 5 minutes. I submitted and was expecting to pass out. My breath finally came back. The whites of my eyes hemorrhaged blood red. I looked like a raccoon. My daughter was an infant at the time and I scared her to tears. She still reminds me of that to this day after 32 years. Edited September 20, 2019 by Cam Benty 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Infiniti Posted September 19, 2019 Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 That's painful to watch,brake failure and hard hit (even with good belts that would have hurt)....Never liked clip in belts because of the open half, this reinforces that feeling. Hope he recovers fully. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee mcoppola Posted September 19, 2019 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 I'm with Ed, the idea of a clip in belt just isn't as strong as a full circle mounting with a bolt through it 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67Mustang Posted September 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 Yes, I was wondering if he took the column in the sternum there the way the wheel is pretzeled up. Note to self about buying belts then! Looks like the guy in the car posted this today, but it looks like it happened in 2018 so I assume he has recovered, but damn that has a hard hit considering how the belts let go. Could you imagine renting a seat in a car and having that happen to you? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Bill Strong Posted September 19, 2019 Administrators Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 Latest on the interwebs... Fake Sabelt Driver had broke nose, arm, and leg. Fully recovered now. Wrap the belt around the bar. Those forces are spread across the belt. 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Infiniti Posted September 19, 2019 Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 (edited) Look at the deformed dash bar... hes lucky to be breathing. Like Cam, I took a hit that knocked the wind out of me bad enough to know I had less then 20 seconds to get out of the burning car before passing out (I did both) Edited September 19, 2019 by Team Infiniti 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Bill Strong Posted September 19, 2019 Administrators Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67Mustang Posted September 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 These are good lessons for new commers for sure. I figured he got beat up pretty badly for sure. Any other details to pay attention to or keep an eye out for that might not be so obvious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee mcoppola Posted September 19, 2019 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 Yeah. Don't buy Chinese poop off of eBay 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morganf Posted September 19, 2019 Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 Did he break his nose on the steering wheel? Where can I watch in slow motion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67Mustang Posted September 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 6 minutes ago, morganf said: Did he break his nose on the steering wheel? Where can I watch in slow motion? I'm not that much of a guru But the Facebook threads state he did have a Hans device, it was pointed out in some pause shots. I was wondering if it almost looked like the helmet darn near came off or twisted on his head. You can tell he was pretty stunned ad it seemed like he was reaching for his chest first with his right hand before he tried to remove his glove. Here is a link to the original post and thread in Facebook that may offer more details. https://www.facebook.com/groups/trackmustangsonline/permalink/2402860533364839/ Bill found info too so it is out there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EngEtan Posted September 19, 2019 Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 Whoa! That hurt just watching it. I'll be sure to avoid those types of connection on my build! Sheesh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsmith2424 Posted September 20, 2019 Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 2 hours ago, mcoppola said: Yeah. Don't buy Chinese poop off of eBay Agreed. Ebay has just about now turned into a digital flea market that has just about everything Made In China or some other third world country knock offs. If I do buy anything off of eBay I make sure to get it from known sellers (have physical store, website) or has detailed pictures of the item for sale. As for the crash it self, just wow. The cage did some to help but looks weak compared to most in the series. The other thing I noticed is the driver turned into the end of the opening in the wall creating an offset crash (drivers side) which is worse than a head on crash due to the forces being more focused than a head-on crash. With looking at the cage I wouldn't have wanted to pitch the car which is something I would have normally tried to do to try to scrub some speed off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morganf Posted September 20, 2019 Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 1 hour ago, 67Mustang said: I'm not that much of a guru But the Facebook threads state he did have a Hans device, it was pointed out in some pause shots. I was wondering if it almost looked like the helmet darn near came off or twisted on his head. You can tell he was pretty stunned ad it seemed like he was reaching for his chest first. Hans does nothing once your seat belt comes loose. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pintodave Posted September 20, 2019 Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 First of all, it is crazy to even fathom that the belt market is even large enough to warrant the Chinese going after knock-offs, but I guess so. Second, Sabelt or not, I'm with the above opinions, you'll never convince me to use clip-in VS full-closed belt ends. No way. In order for me to use a clip-in style, it'd have to be so thick it would render itself impractical. Show me all the FEA and testing you want, ain't happening. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Bill Strong Posted September 20, 2019 Administrators Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 1 hour ago, pintodave said: Second, Sabelt or not, I'm with the above opinions, you'll never convince me to use clip-in VS full-closed belt ends. No way. In order for me to use a clip-in style, it'd have to be so thick it would render itself impractical. Show me all the FEA and testing you want, ain't happening. THIS!!!! x∞ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Bill Strong Posted September 20, 2019 Administrators Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 Minimize failure points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Bill Strong Posted September 20, 2019 Administrators Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 https://vsport.com.au/sabelt-race-harnesses-real-vs-fake/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulie Posted September 20, 2019 Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, morganf said: Did he break his nose on the steering wheel? Where can I watch in slow motion? Here's three versions, normal, slow and an even slower motion version - Looks like he was nearly completely submerged at one point. I see three impacts. The floor of the car looks to have seat rails under the seat. I believe those are seat adjusteders and that's what failed on the first hit sending it to the forward most position of the seat's travel. You can see the seat stops hard and that's likely at the limit of the adjusters. The seat shouldn't have that much stress on it but maybe if his ass is really plugged in deep into the seat like with a bolster, along with the angle of the impact, maybe that put enough force on it to bust the adjusters. Most all the load should have been on the belts to hold the driver in the seat but whatever. I'm seeing the seat adjusters failed first sending him forward to the limit of the belts which then failed too. You can see the right side lap belt attachment to the car broke and it's hanging loose on the right side of the seat. Edited September 20, 2019 by Paulie 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomTask Posted September 20, 2019 Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 10 hours ago, Bill Strong said: https://vsport.com.au/sabelt-race-harnesses-real-vs-fake/ To be fair, on the first one, the dummy would have been safely ejected through the windshield. . . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted September 20, 2019 Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 Fake Sabelt and OMP all over the place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mostmint Posted September 21, 2019 Report Share Posted September 21, 2019 So the obvious learning here is about the fake belts. My best guess on how to avoid buying them is stick with a reputable seller. I am curious if anyone had any additional thoughts on this. The second lesson for me is to look at the runoffs and decide the longest path to the wall. There are a lot of risk vs reward decisions to be made in just a couple seconds here. It looks to me like he was trying to avoid the wall entirely by trying to take a wide radius left turn, except that didn't work and it ended with a really hard hit into the wall. It is a decision I could have just as easily made myself - not wanting to wreck up the car. However another option to consider is to take a much wider arc or go straight as it looks like the end wall for that runoff area was further away and may have scrubbed off more speed before impact. Reviewing the off track layout and thinking about disaster scenarios like this have to go into my pre-race prep with my team. Practicing in simulators, observing in the track walk, reminding drivers ahead of the race are all things I need to add to the plans for races as a result of this. What track is this? Was that a sand trap he went through? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67Mustang Posted September 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2019 Don’t know the track but also looks like at some points his steering input had no effect. Hard to tell if he just grabbed too much and lost input or if it was more due to surface change etc. I’m guessing if you can get the car to rotate some before the impact so you aren’t hitting head on like this guy did you’ll be better off as the car will split energy between impact and deflection due to the hit angle, say you can rotate to 45 degrees for example. Same trajectory just rotation of the car before it hits. what are others thoughts on this? Am I off base or is this a reasonable thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mender Posted September 21, 2019 Report Share Posted September 21, 2019 (edited) A straight-in impact is almost always the most survivable in my opinion. Angle puts side loading on the car and or course the driver, and that twisting is dangerous. The structure of the car, the belts, and the HANS all do their best when absorbing impact from the front - assuming that the belts remain intact. The first two will tend to lengthen the deceleration time and reduce the peak force by having the front end crush and the belts stretch. A rear impact from backing the car into a wall is the next best but increases the peak g loading, because while the back of the car has a crush zone, the seat doesn't allow as much movement of the driver as the belts. It used to be more survivable than a front impact in terms of neck injuries but the HANS has helped reduce that risk. At Portland I got hit in the right rear corner and although the damage to my car was moderate, my car got spun almost 270 degrees in a very short time. Even with a containment seat and HANS, I got a pretty serious amount of whiplash because of that. No bruising or even sore spots from the belts or seat. Edited September 21, 2019 by mender 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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