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If somebody were to take 100pts for a head swap, what other paraphernalia would they get with it? I thought that the cams and valves/springs went with those 100pts, and you could possibly get a header with it too? If the head only fit the block and nothing else could you add whatever you wanted? If the head isn't off a particular car, I'm assuming you can add whatever is 'stock' to it, being whatever you want. 

There are no rules surrounding this issue and it would be helpful for people to know what it would come out to be. Keep in mind the fact that it does not specify the need for a swapped head to come from another car off the VPI list. 

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Head, springs, valves, and cam if it's OHC.  Everything else is points according to what's been posted.

 

You only get a free intake/header if you're swapping the engine.

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3 minutes ago, turbogrill said:

why would cam be part of the head?

Because if you're swapping a DOHC head onto a SOHC engine.... or you're going to a 4 valve head from a 2 valve... the new head won't function with the old camshaft.

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6 minutes ago, enginerd said:

Because if you're swapping a DOHC head onto a SOHC engine.... or you're going to a 4 valve head from a 2 valve... the new head won't function with the old camshaft.

 

We didn't pick your swap?

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5 hours ago, SonsOfIrony said:

Head, springs, valves, and cam if it's OHC.  Everything else is points according to what's been posted.

 

You only get a free intake/header if you're swapping the engine.

Sounds good; I'm swapping a head onto my swapped engine. :)

 

And yeah, I did pick my swap. ;)

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8 hours ago, mender said:

Sounds good; I'm swapping a head onto my swapped engine. :)

 

And yeah, I did pick my swap. ;)

 

Factory springs/valves/cam.

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13 minutes ago, SonsOfIrony said:

 

Factory springs/valves/cam.

Yup; factory VTEC springs/valves/cams. No mixing and matching.

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As long as the factory intake fits, I don't see why not.

 

You're getting VTEC for the same price as adding a turbo and an intercooler, so I don't see why it'd be an outlier value wise.

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The factory VTEC intake is the only one that bolts to the VTEC head; that's apparently why it was included in the head swap previously. 

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I don't think the the vtec intake is included in the head swap nor is the exhaust manifold or header. Same goes for the throttle body. There are many variations when swapping to a B series engine and each variation requires different parts to be claimed. 

 

 There's a specific rule for the Ecotec Miata manifold that has since be debunked but not changed in the rule book but as far as I've read the head only includes the valve train, cams and gears.

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We did a VTEC head swap on our Integra last season and had to take the points for the mating intake manifold. Verified with Champcar officials this was the only way to handle the swap and the total hit was for both head (including internals associated with that head) AND intake manifold.

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25 minutes ago, mender said:

The factory VTEC intake is the only one that bolts to the VTEC head; that's apparently why it was included in the head swap previously. 

As of last year, during a very long tech shed conversation @ AMP,  the intake/exhaust do not come with the head, just the OHC stuff. (conversation was honda)

 

15 minutes ago, Richard said:

I don't think the the vtec intake is included in the head swap nor is the exhaust manifold or header. Same goes for the throttle body. There are many variations when swapping to a B series engine and each variation requires different parts to be claimed. 

 

 There's a specific rule for the Ecotec Miata manifold that has since be debunked but not changed in the rule book but as far as I've read the head only includes the valve train, cams and gears.

This

Edited by Team Infiniti
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now I'm curious what head you're swapping onto what block that won't take the same exhaust manifold as the swapped motor you are claiming.  

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Tech interpretation:

"Rule 4.5.3. & Swap Form item #3 What’s included in a motor swap / Tech interpretation and enforcement is that ECOTEC Miata swaps require the use of a header and get one for no points."

 

"Rule 4.5.3. & Swap Form item #3 What’s included in a motor swap / Tech interpretation and enforcement is that the Nissan Maxima V6 into a 240SX requires the use of an OEM 350Z intake manifold, no points."

 

So when swapping an engine, there are tech interpretations allowing a specific intake or exhaust that is required to make the swap feasible with no points. That would seem to be inconsistent in the light of the recent Honda head swap/VTEC intake interpretation.

 

As some people are saying, if you pick a swap, you should be aware that additional points may be required to complete that swap. If you still feel the swap is worth it, accept the extra points and start building, but the same intent should apply across the board with no exceptions or interpretations.  

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21 minutes ago, Originalsterm said:

We did a VTEC head swap on our Integra last season and had to take the points for the mating intake manifold. Verified with Champcar officials this was the only way to handle the swap and the total hit was for both head (including internals associated with that head) AND intake manifold.

 

I agree with how your swap was handled but find it interesting that you had to take points for your intake manifold but other teams were freely given intake manifolds and was even published in the interpretations list by tech.   This is the inconsistent poop that everyone hates.  Nobody should be given a free manifold under any interpretation of any rule, it's not in the BCCR period. 

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10 minutes ago, Snake said:

 

I agree with how your swap was handled but find it interesting that you had to take points for your intake manifold but other teams were freely given intake manifolds and was even published in the interpretations list by tech.   This is the inconsistent poop that everyone hates.  Nobody should be given a free manifold under any interpretation of any rule, it's not in the BCCR period. 

I agree with all of that.

 

For any swap or modification, if you chose to do it then you have to take ALL of the consequences that come with it.  If it's really that great of a swap, it is worth all of the points you should be hit with.  If it isn't worth the points, DON'T DO THE SWAP.

 

Why should it be treated any differently than "we didn't pick your car"?

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4 minutes ago, Originalsterm said:

I agree with all of that.

 

For any swap or modification, if you chose to do it then you have to take ALL of the consequences that come with it.  If it's really that great of a swap, it is worth all of the points you should be hit with.  If it isn't worth the points, DON'T DO THE SWAP.

 

Why should it be treated any differently than "we didn't pick your car"?

 

The bigger point being that the rules have to be applied equally to everyone.     

Edited by Snake
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39 minutes ago, mender said:

"Rule 4.5.3. & Swap Form item #3 What’s included in a motor swap / Tech interpretation and enforcement is that ECOTEC Miata swaps require the use of a header and get one for no points."

 

 The reason the Ecotec swap is allowed the header is due to good faith on the part of National Tech in that they made a decision that was based on information provided by a team or teams doing the swap that claimed the header was necessary despite being a performance gain. It has since been proven that the header is not absolutely necessary but does make the swap easier.

 This rule needs to be amended without a doubt.

 

 As to the B series swaps; the intake/exhaust manifolds easily fit in to the engine bay and do not necessitate special components.

 

 

1 hour ago, Originalsterm said:

We did a VTEC head swap on our Integra last season and had to take the points for the mating intake manifold. Verified with Champcar officials this was the only way to handle the swap and the total hit was for both head (including internals associated with that head) AND intake manifold.

 

 IMO you should also have to take the points for the throttle body but I believe Tech made the decision to allow the TB and Intake to be 50 points total.

 

 There are many ways to implement a vtec swap, some more costly points wise than others.

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24 minutes ago, Richard said:

 

 The reason the Ecotec swap is allowed the header is due to good faith on the part of National Tech in that they made a decision that was based on information provided by a team or teams doing the swap that claimed the header was necessary despite being a performance gain. It has since been proven that the header is not absolutely necessary but does make the swap easier.

 This rule needs to be amended without a doubt.

 

 As to the B series swaps; the intake/exhaust manifolds easily fit in to the engine bay and do not necessitate special components.

 

 

 

 IMO you should also have to take the points for the throttle body but I believe Tech made the decision to allow the TB and Intake to be 50 points total.

 

 There are many ways to implement a vtec swap, some more costly points wise than others.

 

We've since wrecked the car and moved on, but I believe I was charged 50 points for intake/TB plus the 100 for the head swap.

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1 hour ago, Richard said:

 

 IMO you should also have to take the points for the throttle body but I believe Tech made the decision to allow the TB and Intake to be 50 points total.

 

 

 

This has been fixed for next year.   

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3 hours ago, Snake said:

This has been fixed for next year. 

 

 They 'fixed' it by reducing each to 25 points so in effect it's now 50 points for both when it should have been and should still be 50 points for each. I don't agree with it but there it is.

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23 hours ago, pintodave said:

 

We didn't pick your swap?

Well crap, I’m putting 427 med riser heads on my 289, I guess I get to just throw  the rest of the 427 in for the same 100 points! Great deal lol oh where is my green font???

Edited by 67Mustang
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