wvumtnbkr Posted January 4, 2020 Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 Is this true? #nomorefreestuff. #speedandcostcreep. Yes, I realize that 2 piece rotors can save money in the long run. However, cars that don't need them don't benefit and therefore need to spend money elsewhere to keep up with those that now have less limitations to go faster... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDChristianson Posted January 4, 2020 Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 I sure hope it’s not true. It’s not about saving money it’s about finding ways to reduce unsprung rotating mass. That’s a performance gain in racing. Please stop allowing free stuff!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the5 Posted January 4, 2020 Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 It has been allowed under 2x for 2 years I think now. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted January 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 Dang. It's tough to keep up with all the stuff allowed for minimal points these days. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the5 Posted January 4, 2020 Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 Been in the rule book for 2019 Just like this and I think it was the same way in 2018 as well but not sure. Read and analyze the rule book for every advantage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremsen Posted January 4, 2020 Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 How are teams costing 2-pc discs? Retail kits? Rings+Material+hardware? Can someone show me an example? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Posted January 4, 2020 Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 I think this is a loophole that is being exploited as teams are just showing rotor ring replacement cost and not the hat as well. You can't run a rotor ring without a hat, its a package deal. Some cars can probably get in under the rule, most cannot if they do the math accurately and correctly. Someone should submit the question to the new help desk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Chris Huggins Posted January 4, 2020 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 They way the rule book is literally worded, it’s only the cost of the disc. On one piece parts, that also includes the “hat” portion. On 2 piece parts, the hat is a different component.. so if the rotor is within 2x... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABR-Glen Posted January 4, 2020 Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 Just now, Huggy said: They way the rule book is literally worded, it’s only the cost of the disc. On one piece parts, that also includes the “hat” portion. On 2 piece parts, the hat is a different component.. so if the rotor is within 2x... ...then the hat is points? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Chris Huggins Posted January 4, 2020 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 12 minutes ago, ABR-Glen said: ...then the hat is points? Theoretically, yes. in practice, I’m sure it’s called a “free spacer” or something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mender Posted January 4, 2020 Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 What's the points cost of using a Wilwood caliper? Is the custom bracket and brake line included for the 5 points? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators E. Tyler Pedersen Posted January 4, 2020 Administrators Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 We have a board meeting on Wednesday. I can bring this up for clarification. My thought is the rotor is 2x and to make a 2 piece rotor work with your car (other parts and not direct bolt on) then we have to have some points in there as well to make it work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyKid Posted January 4, 2020 Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 I initially thought we could just charge the ring and then call the hat a spacer and that is what we ran to start the year. But then I heard about a tech ruling that the hat needed to be included in the 2x. We then move to a single disk midseason. Then I found out 2x isn't the cheapest rotor but any stock rotor. Based that we were able to get a hat and disc within the 2x for the Miata. To summarize it is now my understanding that the 2x rule allows you to use the price of any stock replacement rotor. when applied to a 2pcs rotor the price must include the hat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karman1970 Posted January 4, 2020 Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 Yeah, look hard enough on the internet you can piece together a 2-pc Wilwood setup for a Civic and stay below 2x the price of a factory caliper and rotor. Allowing dealer prices on replacement parts opens up a world of options vs using reman prices from the parts store like most have been doing for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted January 4, 2020 Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 I was under the impressions the 2x comparison wasn't the $30 O'Reilly's junk-o-la special, but an OEM part or similar. I don't even put those cheap rotors on my daily. Such garbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblio125 Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 I don't see where it says "Dealer pricing" is allowed. 4.8.1 says " available on- line by a nationally recognized retail chain". Starting with O.E. list pricing, then appying 2x, that sounds generous.(and expensive.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Chris Huggins Posted January 5, 2020 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 40 minutes ago, oblio125 said: I don't see where it says "Dealer pricing" is allowed. 4.8.1 says " available on- line by a nationally recognized retail chain". Starting with O.E. list pricing, then appying 2x, that sounds generous.(and expensive.) Unfortunately the ruling was issued in 2018 that the dealer is a ‘nationally recognized retail chain’ and therefore opened up the checkbooks of all of us. i will be writing a petition on this again this year. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig71188 Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 But remember - NO ADJUSTMENTS FOR FUEL! There, we're keeping Champcar safe and cost effective! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 23 hours ago, Snake said: I think this is a loophole that is being exploited as teams are just showing rotor ring replacement cost and not the hat as well. You can't run a rotor ring without a hat, its a package deal. Some cars can probably get in under the rule, most cannot if they do the math accurately and correctly. Someone should submit the question to the new help desk. With dealer pricing being acceptable for 2X now, I'm sure lots of people will use fuzzy math to make them fit.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoparBoyy Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 12 hours ago, Huggy said: Unfortunately the ruling was issued in 2018 that the dealer is a ‘nationally recognized retail chain’ and therefore opened up the checkbooks of all of us. i will be writing a petition on this again this year. the issue is that some parts on some cars are dealer only items. i think that is were dealer pricing for the 2x rule came in. 2-piece rotors should just be outlawed from the series, easy way to 'control costs' 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyk Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 If we really wanted to control costs /speed creep we should look at swaps. Currently you can add an intake(other than stock Because stock doesn’t fit) and add headers(because stock manifolds don’t work) for zero points. What are you gaining, maybe 20-30hp free depending on set up. Oh, we were talking about 2 piece rotors 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoparBoyy Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 hour ago, scottyk said: If we really wanted to control costs /speed creep we should look at swaps. Currently you can add an intake(other than stock Because stock doesn’t fit) and add headers(because stock manifolds don’t work) for zero points. What are you gaining, maybe 20-30hp free depending on set up. Oh, we were talking about 2 piece rotors i've said this for a while now. they are also not enforcing the swap value rule either, teams are dropping 3-4x on the 'swap engine' than they are supposed to be claiming 'well i bought a junk car for $500' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Bill Strong Posted January 5, 2020 Administrators Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 13 minutes ago, MoparBoyy said: i've said this for a while now. they are also not enforcing the swap value rule either, teams are dropping 3-4x on the 'swap engine' than they are supposed to be claiming 'well i bought a junk car for $500' I got a receipt when I purchased mine. It has the VIN from the engine on it, and it matches what is on the engine. Do we require receipts that match the engine, or automatic EC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Bill Strong Posted January 5, 2020 Administrators Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 Gotta love cheap bolt-on parts that can fit a number of different cars, not just the Miata. https://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazda-Performance-Part/61-2414.html 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mender Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 20 hours ago, Huggy said: Unfortunately the ruling was issued in 2018 that the dealer is a ‘nationally recognized retail chain’ and therefore opened up the checkbooks of all of us. Where was this ruling issued? And by whom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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