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miatas material points for hard tops?


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OEM Shape is free.

OEM Rear window shape can be repurposed for free.

 

We use the Treasure Coast Chop Top (FREE)

Cut-out from OEM size polycarbonate window (FREE)

Repurposed materials (Front bumper bottom, splash shields) (FREE)

Metal (Currently 2sqft but being swapped with repurposed)

Edited by LuckyKid
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44 minutes ago, Chummy said:

I haven't run the Miata in a few years. I'm not sure about the rules on the hardtops anymore...

 

 

honestly seems like there is no rules anymore, make up some bull and you'll get it for free.  I've already seen a few cars with non-OEM more aero friendly tops who are getting them for no points.

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17 minutes ago, Snorman said:

Sooo...you can substitute Lexan for a back window at zero points, then use that different-from-OE material? I don't see how that works. 

 

I could kind of see it, since your allowed to re-purpose and as long as you dont have a back window. It is a stretch tho.

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8 minutes ago, the5 said:

 

I could kind of see it, since your allowed to re-purpose and as long as you dont have a back window. It is a stretch tho.

Yes, but you can't bend glass to make a fastback. So it's legal to substitute a polycarbonate window, then cut the polycarbonate to be the shape of a fastback window instead of an OE window and it's zero points? 

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28 minutes ago, Snorman said:

Sooo...you can substitute Lexan for a back window at zero points, then use that different-from-OE material? I don't see how that works. 

Tech said it works, so that is how it works.  My rear window is bigger now so I'll have a better view of your Cobra as it rockets by me on the straights.  

 

I haven't opened Polycarbonate nominal thickness can of worms yet, I was waiting to petition that one.  For now we run one size thicker.

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1 minute ago, LuckyKid said:

Tech said it works, so that is how it works.  My rear window is bigger now so I'll have a better view of your Cobra as it rockets by me on the straights.  

 

I haven't opened Polycarbonate nominal thickness can of worms yet, I was waiting to petition that one.  For now we run one size thicker.

I admire the creativity, I just am curious how that's zero points. 

I guess we're the only car that Tech likes to f*ck with on a regular basis, lol. 

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5 minutes ago, TiredBirds said:

As I read the rules Lexan can be used to replace rear (or any windows) as long as it is in the factory location and shape. If you create a "fastback" you should get hit w/ points for materials at least. $0.02 

My question is still how you can substitute polycarbonate for "free" then cut it into a different shape to make something different than OE. I thought repurposing only applied to OE material. 

giphy.gif

 

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I don't know, but that is the ruling I got.  I then I spent several (8-10) hours carefully measuring cutting, documenting, and re-configuring our fastback to accept the new larger window replacing the small window and 2pts of wood that was there.  This was all documented in photos in the tech binder we had at tech at Road Atlanta.  I could use the glass window and cover that in 3M tape.  It would be less safe and harder to work with, but functionally it would do the same thing, I assume that might have been part of that ruling.

Edited by LuckyKid
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Using this logic (and I'm not necessarily blaming PB) hypothetically we could:

  • Replace rear window with polycarbonate window
  • Cut out ~6" strip of polycarbonate
  • Make rear spoiler/wicker out of polycarbonate using free material from replacement rear window which was free

I'm going to predict right now we would absolutely get hit with points for that. 

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10 minutes ago, Snorman said:

My question is still how you can substitute polycarbonate for "free" then cut it into a different shape to make something different than OE. I thought repurposing only applied to OE material. 

giphy.gif

 

 

1 minute ago, Snorman said:

Using this logic (and I'm not necessarily blaming PB) hypothetically we could:

  • Replace rear window with polycarbonate window
  • Cut out ~6" strip of polycarbonate
  • Make rear spoiler/wicker out of polycarbonate using free material from replacement rear window which was free

I'm going to predict right now we would absolutely get hit with points for that. 

 

We have discussed this in the TAC a few times, and you cannot re-purpose 0 point window poly-carbonate in other places for 0 points. 

You also cannot pay 10 points for an aluminum under-tray and then re-purpose that material into other things for 0 points. 
 

At least that is how I recall the conversations in the TAC group going.  

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1 minute ago, red0 said:

 

 

We have discussed this in the TAC a few times, and you cannot re-purpose 0 point window poly-carbonate in other places for 0 points. 

You also cannot pay 10 points for an aluminum under-tray and then re-purpose that material into other things for 0 points. 
 

At least that is how I recall the conversations in the TAC group going.  

This makes 100% sense. 

So how can a rear window be replaced with polycarbonate, then the polycarbonate be cut to a different shape than OE to form a different (i.e. better performing) body panel for zero points? 

 

My issue is not what PB did, it's how it's being valued. This is like the 2 point Ram's Horn manifolds...

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1 hour ago, red0 said:

 

 

We have discussed this in the TAC a few times, and you cannot re-purpose 0 point window poly-carbonate in other places for 0 points. 
You also cannot pay 10 points for an aluminum under-tray and then re-purpose that material into other things for 0 points. 
 

At least that is how I recall the conversations in the TAC group going.  

 

was this "understanding" applied to the rules / TAC?    would it help if one of us asked this exact question so it can be ruled on?   we need to get rid of the "understandings" and "tech rulings" that exist nowhere else.

Edited by theblue
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10 minutes ago, MMiskoe said:

Should just do that with the windshield then you'd have much more material to work with.

 

Can I cut out the OE firewall and use that material as re-purposed then build a new firewall for no points because it is a required safety item and bulkheads can be built for free?

 

 

That analogy is flawed.   That would assume that I would be running both glass AND using the poly-carbonate.  There is still a 1=1 equation.  In your analogy 1 = 1 + 1 .  Whats more, its still a window and a rear window but ~6" higher in the rear.

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15 minutes ago, LuckyKid said:

That analogy is flawed.   That would assume that I would be running both glass AND using the poly-carbonate.  There is still a 1=1 equation.  In your analogy 1 = 1 + 1 .  Whats more, its still a window and a rear window but ~6" higher in the rear.

 

9.3.2.5. The shape and location of the window covering must be exactly the same size, shape, and location of the OE window.

 

the issue is tech is flat out ignoring the rules when they told you it was ok.  You're not the only one, this isn't meant to call you out.  

Edited by MoparBoyy
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4 hours ago, LuckyKid said:

OEM Shape is free.

OEM Rear window shape can be repurposed for free.

 

We use the Treasure Coast Chop Top (FREE)

Cut-out from OEM size polycarbonate window (FREE)

Repurposed materials (Front bumper bottom, splash shields) (FREE)

Metal (Currently 2sqft but being swapped with repurposed)

So, to put this another way, you removed material from hardtop to fit a window.

 

You took that material that came out and used it elsewhere.

 

How is that okay?  

 

Could the same material be used by people with a stock hardtop?  If not, it shouldn't be allowed.

 

Or, if the rear window is larger, you need to claim points for plastic for the added size.

Edited by wvumtnbkr
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5 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

you need to claim points for plastic for the added size.

Really he needs to claim what ever points tech says to.     

 

Its not easy doing tech....it becomes more and more confusing with all this reuse this and repurpose that.   It seems to me it would be easier if we just went off the principle that if it isn’t stock then it’s points.  

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