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Extended Lower Ball Joints Point Value


cowboys647
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Hey guys,

 

I’m planning on submitting this to the knowledge base but hoping to get a good idea of what to do this weekend before NCM. Has anyone been given a point value for Extended Lower Ball Joints?

 

Basically just a more reliable method to get more camber than offset bushings. 

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3 hours ago, cowboys647 said:

Hey guys,

 

I’m planning on submitting this to the knowledge base but hoping to get a good idea of what to do this weekend before NCM. Has anyone been given a point value for Extended Lower Ball Joints?

 

Basically just a more reliable method to get more camber than offset bushings. 

Free if you do it sketchy by cutting the arm and welding in metal from else where in the car, 10 points for a bought part.

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7 hours ago, morganf said:

Free if you do it sketchy by cutting the arm and welding in metal from else where in the car, 10 points for a bought part.

 

I can just picture diving into Nascar 3 at Charlotte at 120 to 130 with a welded control arm.  Hmm, did I have the heat setting right when I welded that?

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10 minutes ago, Huggy said:

extended lower ball joints are going to change roll center and bump steer but not camber.

 

Extended lower control arms will change camber.

Depends on spindle design. Some are limited on camber movement so raising spindle with longer ball joint can give you more negative camber adjustment. 

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6 hours ago, Huggy said:

extended lower ball joints are going to change roll center and bump steer but not camber.

 

Extended lower control arms will change camber.

Huh, This comment got my head spinning and between the rain outside and this virus I have nothing better to think about.Forgive me. .

 

 Extended lower ball points will can change camber on a SLA suspension, I find that hard to argue. Its the reason they exist for Miatas. https://www.flyinmiata.com/extended-lower-ball-joint.html

 

I never really thought if they would impact roll centers. It will not really change the instant center in Miata SLA suspension. I guess there could be a minor change in the Z axis of the outer ball joint because of the angle of the ball joint attachment to the lower control arm (not shown in the pictures before). And the roll center could change from the slight increase in track width   but all that is going to be mouse farts. Honestly I am not convinced RCs matter a ton. My hillbilly rules of thumb are try to get them close to your CoG and try to not put them underground unless you really know what you are doing. 

 

image.png.cdc81a5327ca76eb3e4448c1d164583c.png

^SLA IC

 

image.png.751f1f0b58eea0d3921c2b70cc7d0373.png

^SLA  RC

image.png.be348454a9a22545a4711776adfad695.png

 RC for MacPherson

 

Im also having a hard time imagining how extending your lower ball joint pickups would change your bump steer.  

 

 

image.png.16fe8d986993173e87e7932e0d20b4f0.png

 

Your steering IC should stay would stay the same but you will change the steering axis. So yeah I guess that will change your bump steer. Have no idea if it would hurt or help it though. I am fuzzy in this area and I would need to plot it. 

 

 

 

Edited by Jamie
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4 hours ago, Jamie said:

Huh, This comment got my head spinning and between the rain outside and this virus I have nothing better to think about.Forgive me. .

 

 Extended lower ball points will can change camber on a SLA suspension, I find that hard to argue. Its the reason they exist for Miatas. https://www.flyinmiata.com/extended-lower-ball-joint.html

Simply because when you say "extended Ball joint" it sounds like the vertical dimension. The term used for miatas is because of the bolt in ball joint assembly being "extended" in the horizontal.
Image result for bump steer ball joint
 image.png.fa3d7923efdea19cb9152e9152de03ee.png

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Huh.  I assumed lengthened as in basically making the lower control arm longer.   I guess that's because that's how my car is setup.

 

Just make a plate and drill 4 holes in it.  Boom more camber (and castor if you want it).

 

That's how mine is done.  I claim 5 points for homemade camber adjustment as per the fpv.

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11 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Huh.  I assumed lengthened as in basically making the lower control arm longer.   I guess that's because that's how my car is setup.

 

Just make a plate and drill 4 holes in it.  Boom more camber (and castor if you want it).

 

That's how mine is done.  I claim 5 points for homemade camber adjustment as per the fpv.

we did both, new holes and longer heavier joints. 

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I've got the ELBJ on my '99 miata, which are an OEM piece on earlier R package miatas.  As a camber "apparatus" not available for my year, I claim 20 points total and tech'd this past weekend at Harris Hill.  

 

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  • Technical Advisory Committee

Valuable lesson learned here (for me)

 

Its important to fully understand the application and perhaps have photos included to understand what is asking.  Even owning and working on a miata, I never considered that the term "extended ball joint" meant what it does to a miata owner versus what I have always considered extended ball joints.

 

http://pinderwagen.com/build-topics/suspension/roll-centre/balljoint-spacers/

 

8NPuGOn.jpg

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  • 5 weeks later...

I thought that explanation was the difference between making the ball joint taller (vertical direction) versus making the ball joint longer (horizontal direction). 

 

I believe this is about making the ball joint longer (horizontal direction).

 

In other words, I believe this is about making the "effective" lower control arm length longer.

 

anybody have any insight into miata front suspension?

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