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New Guy - Wants to build a G-body


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Hey Gang!
Good morning... I’ll Jump right in and expose just how naive I really am.

 

I’m the beat up Army guy who was driving Tommy’s Pinto at COTA. He turned me into a junkie on my first time out. Anyway, we are building a 6th Generation Honda Accord (easy button) and a 78 Malibu (silly button). I know the G-body is probably not the wisest decision I can make... but it is an emotional one. I’ve always wanted to turn it into a 70’s Trans-America type of car. 
 

I’m humbly asking for advice on the G-body. Other than the front end geometry, are there other fundamental concerns with this chassis? Looking at the points, it looks like you can do a really wild build (Suspension, trans / diff, heads, cam, Fi, intake) and still squeak in at 500.  I know there are less expensive and faster cars. The G-body is just a childhood dream... and that 64’ Mustang lapping me every 40 minutes did nothing to quench it! Oh, going full stupid and de-stroking... any idea if this is a “points add”? Can’t really find this in the rules... but it will defiantly make the car slower and harder to drive. 

Personal Info: I’m set to retire from the Army in May 2021, provided the Army is finished with my orthopedic refurbishment. I’m in my early 50’s, and married to a smoking hot babe. I prefer the Cool Ranch Doritos, Blue Gatorade and have a deathly fear of squash plants, zero turn mowers and kangaroos. I sleep with two beagles on the bed (because of the kangaroos) and have been repeatedly punched in the head. My favorite color is plaid and I have developed a technique that allows me  to eat soup using three chopsticks and 
 

Sincerely - AJ. 

Edited by AJJaxin
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I raced one of these for a few years.

 

Do all of the oiling mods to the engine.  Try NOT to go nuts with the horsepower. 

 

I did a simple b body spindle swap with the big calipers and rotors from a 1le camaro.  I also used taller ball joints top and bottom.  I bought some cheap circle track upper control arms for the front too.

 

For the rear, I had a gigantic swaybar and new stock bushings. (Dont replace with super stiff bushings.  It will bind).

 

Bilstein shocks worked well with some combination of cut moogs springs (5774? Maybe?)

 

Gut all the weight out.

 

A 3.73 lsd rear gear worked well for us.  Never had a problem with all the horror stories.

 

I got the car down to around 2500# at its lightest.

 

 

Oh, use a steering shaft from a jeep grand Cherokee (2 u joints instead of the rag joint). Firebird WS6 steering gearbox really wakes the steering up.  

 

Bassett wheels suck btw.  They bend too easy.  Try to get a nice aluminum wheel.  

 

We stopped racing this car and sold it cheap.  I had enough fun replacing sbc all the time.  Never the same failure twice...  gah.  Don't rev too much above 4500 is my advice...

Edited by wvumtnbkr
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Thanks Rob,

 

I didn't even think about the B-body spindles, F-body brakes.  That will save a bunch of money, I was looking at shiny stuff from parts catalogs.  That weight number is amazing!  What transmission did you use? There seems to be a great divide on this topic.

 

I was already shopping for Bassets LOL! Thanks for that heads-up.

 

Again, thanks for your reply!  Was that your RX7 at COTA?

 

AJ

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Don't use B body spindles. The bump steer is terrible. Use Howe tall ball joints to correct the geometry so the camber goes the right way in compression. Or, if you are stacking cash get some AFX spindles that correct the geometry and allow use of C6 hubs.

 

For the rear ideally you want to fab up a three link. Stock lower trailing arms are fine if you need to save points.  As stated above, if you keep the four link do not use urethane bushings.

 

C5/6 brakes are an easy swap. Adapters are out there or you can cut your own.

 

eta-You can find most everything you need to do a very competitive suspension on these cars at speedway.com and parts are cheap compared to most everything else in this series. No need for the high dollar pretty parts the aftermarket suspension guys peddle. Being the car of choice for entry level circle track means there are a LOT of parts and knowledge out there.

 

Also, 17x11 repop ZR1 wheels. 

 

To give an good look at the challenges, and good parts of this chassis, read through this long ass thread. https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/95192-My-1985-Monte-Carlo-SS-Barney?s=03b702540bda75b003a539f20809e346

Edited by Bandit
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Thanks Bandit!

 

I do have access to a mechanical engineer / tig-welder / fabricator cousin of mine and his large metal working shop. I'm wanting to get the "home made" points discount on everything we can. 

 

I know we would be better / cheaper off using one of those trendy little convertibles all the cool kids are racing, a Lexi or even a Panzer War Machine, but we  (me and the wife) are not in it to win it..  Just pursuing some dreams and having fun.  We do have the Accord though. My brother is a Honda guru (independent auto shop specializing in Honda and Toyota's) and it looks like he has that plan figured out. 

 

Thanks for the link!

 

AJ

 

 

Edited by AJJaxin
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I think that thread also shows how to measure the front end and adjust the geometry by moving the control arm mounting holes around. Might be more than you want to do but every bit helps. Factory they can be off a bit due to tolerances.

 

Protip-Nova lowers, available new from Speedway, allow you to widen the front track to push the hub out into the wheel. Better for geometry as well. Swap them to the opposite side as they are rear steer.

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Just now, Bandit said:

Protip-Nova lowers, available new from Speedway, allow you to widen the front track to push the hub out into the wheel. Better for geometry as well. Swap them to the opposite side as they are rear steer.

Ahh yes, the rear steer.  I've watched guys try to circle track those. It didn't look like a fun time.

 

-AJ

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Just now, AJJaxin said:

Ahh yes, the rear steer.  I've watched guys try to circle track those. It didn't look like a fun time.

 

-AJ

You can design in rear steer with the rear control arms as well. Not as radical as the dirt guys, but it is there. I think it is talked about in that thread.

 

The rear steer I was talking about is the steering linkage. The Nova's and 1st gen Camaro's were rear steer meaning the tie rods are to the rear of the spindle. The lower control arms being designed for this have to be swapped side to side when used on the G body.

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1 minute ago, Bandit said:

 

 

The rear steer I was talking about is the steering linkage. The Nova's and 1st gen Camaro's were rear steer meaning the tie rods are to the rear of the spindle. The lower control arms being designed for this have to be swapped side to side when used on the G body.

Yup, that's was what I was tracking.  Those cars are trying to push the outside cornering spindle from the back, rather than pull it from the front.

AJ

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Just now, Bandit said:

Also, with a fuel cell you can run 21.7 gallons as the diesel cars had 19.7 gallon tanks. Makes these cars much more attractive.

I just pulled up the Wikipedia page and noticed that LOL.  Small cubes and FI, might make it very advantageous.

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How does the G body respond to a track bar and Torque arm? We use them on the dirt and it transformed the handling. Would it work on a Road course for that car?

 

1 hour ago, Bandit said:

Don't use B body spindles. The bump steer is terrible. Use Howe tall ball joints to correct the geometry so the camber goes the right way in compression. Or, if you are stacking cash get some AFX spindles that correct the geometry and allow use of C6 hubs.

 

For the rear ideally you want to fab up a three link. Stock lower trailing arms are fine if you need to save points.  As stated above, if you keep the four link do not use urethane bushings.

 

C5/6 brakes are an easy swap. Adapters are out there or you can cut your own.

 

eta-You can find most everything you need to do a very competitive suspension on these cars at speedway.com and parts are cheap compared to most everything else in this series. No need for the high dollar pretty parts the aftermarket suspension guys peddle. Being the car of choice for entry level circle track means there are a LOT of parts and knowledge out there.

 

Also, 17x11 repop ZR1 wheels. 

 

To give an good look at the challenges, and good parts of this chassis, read through this long ass thread. https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/95192-My-1985-Monte-Carlo-SS-Barney?s=03b702540bda75b003a539f20809e346

 

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Even with the stock bushings the four link has some bind to it. Generally on asphalt one can make it work well enough as it's usually front grip you're searching for. (And there are spherical bushings available...) The 3 link is much more tuneable though for drive off and such and as these cars are generally chopped up it isn't terribly difficult to add. A street car it is much more difficult if a guy wants to keep the back seat. Basically looking at a 4th gen Camaro style 3 link that runs in the tunnel to the trans mount in that situation.

 

On dirt you're looking for a lot more travel and rear steer.

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That's kinda what I was thinking, add the two coil springs for 20 more points and so 40 points total.  That isn't bad really.  Would you have to pay for fabbing the front mounting point on the trans crossmember?  Or would that be free if you did it your own self?  Thinking out loud.

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Here's an example of a high priced pretty part that can either be fabbed for cheap or, even cheaper, find the same pieces off a Grand Prix. You want to stiffen the front of the frame rails as they will flex. Run a downtube to the front rails off your cage as well. You're allowed 2 in front of the firewall.

 

75765c_fdaeb5178fc34926b82a993853d75698~

 

While all the G bodies have the same frames, interestingly each division did a few things differently. As I recall only the Grand Prix came with braces like this from the factory.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Bandit said:

Here's an example of a high priced pretty part that can either be fabbed for cheap or, even cheaper, find the same pieces off a Grand Prix. You want to stiffen the front of the frame rails as they will flex. Run a downtube to the front rails off your cage as well. You're allowed 2 in front of the firewall.

 

75765c_fdaeb5178fc34926b82a993853d75698~

 

While all the G bodies have the same frames, interestingly each division did a few things differently. As I recall only the Grand Prix came with braces like this from the factory.

 

 

  Not quite correct unless you have a GranPrix and you do not run your bars forward of the ball joints. 

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What? Can only run those bars, the factory ones not the pretty red one pictured, if you have a GP?

 

Meanwhile 4speed/350 3rd gens are kosher. 😀

 

Being reminded why I said the hell with it....

 

These are repops of the factory parts.

 

frontframebraces.jpg

Edited by Bandit
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41 minutes ago, Bandit said:

Thought springs are free.

 

eta-The front mounts would be part of your cage/chassis work. These cars really should have crossbraces added as they are weak as hell in a side hit.

The car I was thinking of has leafs... For the G body, your right.

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