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Bernie Myers running for 2021 Board of Directors


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57 minutes ago, enginerd said:

Which car was this and who approved it / valued it?

The car is GBU.  Not sure on who.  It's been addressed by the Board for 2021.  Individual components would be 150 points moving forward.  I think sometimes tech gets put in a difficult spot when someone above tech makes a call.  

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6 hours ago, Ray Franck said:

The HOW is a differential swap is 25 points and when I found a car running an entire IRS swap for 25 points , which had been pre approved and run for years that way, we changed it to 50 points for a rear from a car on the list cause 25 was to low.  Plus individual points if aftermarket components are used. It has been handled that way for the 3 years I have been employed. 

 

"I was told X Y Z, 3 years ago". Didn't we nix that with the tech desk? Since when is that anything remotely acceptable anymore?

I thought we got rid of special backdoor drug deals? If not - can we finally do that, please?

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1 hour ago, Jer said:

The car is GBU.  Not sure on who.  It's been addressed by the Board for 2021.  Individual components would be 150 points moving forward.  I think sometimes tech gets put in a difficult spot when someone above tech makes a call.  


I think Chisek had a pretty dangerous mindset - 'we don't punish the competitors for our mistakes' which burned champcar pretty bad a handful of times in the last year, even. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt - maybe he was getting bad/incomplete information to make those decisions which he was then forced to stick by in impound. A 'gotcha' scenario like this should no longer exist in Champcar. 

I think if it's written in the rules, it doesn't matter what anyone - even the CEO - tells you, it's your responsibility as a racer to know the rulebook and try not to get spoken exemptions to the rules.

If you get a special exemption it should be documented in the knowledge base, and the knowledge base approvals and content shouldn't come from just one person. Originally it was supposed to be reviewed and approved by the TAC but that seemed to have gone by the wayside very quickly. I also very much disagree with platform specific exemptions but that's another topic.

Above all else, it should be protestable in impound. If it is determined to be in conflict with the written rules, no matter who told you that you could do it, it shouldn't be allowed. The rulebook should always have veto power on anything.

I have faith in the new leadership that these issues will be mitigated!

Edited by Slugworks Paul
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2 hours ago, Jer said:

The car is GBU.  Not sure on who.  It's been addressed by the Board for 2021.  Individual components would be 150 points moving forward.  I think sometimes tech gets put in a difficult spot when someone above tech makes a call.  

Ray said “had been run for years that way”... and the GBU corvette was a new build. 
I got the impression from Ray’s comments that they applied the subframe value to GBU after a different car had set the precedent.
 

Perhaps I misinterpreted. Perhaps GBU’s previous car had that same modification. 

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24 minutes ago, enginerd said:

Ray said “had been run for years that way”... and the GBU corvette was a new build. 
I got the impression from Ray’s comments that they applied the subframe value to GBU after a different car had set the precedent.
 

Perhaps I misinterpreted. Perhaps GBU’s previous car had that same modification. 

No, you were not misinterpreting it.

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6 minutes ago, Grufton said:

"for years" and GBU C3 do not jive.  If you take the discussion at face value, there had to be (or still is) another car.

Agreed.  I don't think it was the GBU camaro either.

 

That had a straight axle with all sorts of mods done to it, but probably a stock based rear end.

 

I know that a buddy swapped a front subframe into my old champcar and was charged per part for each of the components in 2017.  This is not heresay.  I was the person who took the car through tech.  So, the "per part" precedent was set....  not sure why rearends would be treated differently.

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3 hours ago, Slugworks Paul said:

 

"I was told X Y Z, 3 years ago". Didn't we nix that with the tech desk? Since when is that anything remotely acceptable anymore?

I thought we got rid of special backdoor drug deals? If not - can we finally do that, please?

I don't even know where to start with that story. Should it be "which car got a 25 point IRS and who approved that" or "who wrote the Tech Desk response on January 9th that stated 'you have to account for each non-stock suspension component'"? 

 

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  • Technical Advisory Committee
On 12/1/2020 at 1:25 PM, Jer said:

The car is GBU.  Not sure on who.  It's been addressed by the Board for 2021.  Individual components would be 150 points moving forward.  I think sometimes tech gets put in a difficult spot when someone above tech makes a call.  

 Wrong, not GBU. the car in question won class a couple of times but that was before we started bringing class winners to impound. 150 points individual components you must be counting bolts,nuts and washers also. 

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31 minutes ago, Ray Franck said:

 Wrong, not GBU. the car in question won class a couple of times but that was before we started bringing class winners to impound. 150 points individual components you must be counting bolts,nuts and washers also. 

8 suspension links, 2 uprights, factory IRS swaybar, diff (assume subframe, mounts/brackets, half shafts, hubs, and spring are included).  That's pretty close to 150.

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4 hours ago, Ray Franck said:

 Wrong, not GBU. the car in question won class a couple of times but that was before we started bringing class winners to impound. 150 points individual components you must be counting bolts,nuts and washers also. 

 

Hmm our old car had 5 rear controls arms per side.

 

Arms 100 points

Subframe 10

Knucks 20

Sway bar 20

 

Looks like 150 points to me....

 

And that's not counting a diff, since many rear IRS swaps will incorporate a different diff.

 

 

 

 

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  • Technical Advisory Committee
9 hours ago, Ian said:

 

Hmm our old car had 5 rear controls arms per side.

 

Arms 100 points

Subframe 10

Knucks 20

Sway bar 20

 

Looks like 150 points to me....

 

And that's not counting a diff, since many rear IRS swaps will incorporate a different diff.

 

 

 

 

   We figure points per component,  if lower control arm is two piece's per side thats 10 points per side not 20.

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4 minutes ago, Ray Franck said:

   We figure points per component,  if lower control arm is two piece's per side thats 10 points per side not 20.

Why?  It is a non oem suspension component.  Why do both get lumped in as 1 value?

 

If I put 4 new control arms (2 per side) on my car that are stronger, is that 10 pts, 20 pts, or 40 pts?  I would think it's 40 pts.

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1 hour ago, Ray Franck said:

   We figure points per component,  if lower control arm is two piece's per side thats 10 points per side not 20.

No one would think a two-piece A-arm with a single ball joint is 20 points.  But multi-link suspensions can have 4 or 5 LINKS per side, and each one of those should be 10 points.  I think a good rule of thumb is you ought to be taking 10 points per attachment point on the spindle.

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15 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Half shafts come with the diff.

Tom Cruise What GIF

If true, that's ridiculous. So it's a buy one, get one free? Pay 25 points for a diff and get 25 point axles for zero points? 

That should be 100% wrong and I hope that's not how Tech has been valuing these items. That's like saying valvetrain is free with the cam. Or, lol, cams are free with a head. Or the throttle body is free with a 25 point intake. 

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2 minutes ago, Snorman said:

Tom Cruise What GIF

If true, that's ridiculous. So it's a buy one, get one free? Pay 25 points for a diff and get 25 point axles for zero points? 

That should be 100% wrong and I hope that's not how Tech has been valuing these items. That's like saying valvetrain is free with the cam. Or, lol, cams are free with a head. Or the throttle body is free with a 25 point intake. 

In solid axle terms, if you swapped a GM 7.5" out and replaced with a complete Ford 8.8 assembly (including the stock axles), what would you expect to get charged?  50 points?

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4 minutes ago, karman1970 said:

In solid axle terms, if you swapped a GM 7.5" out and replaced with a complete Ford 8.8 assembly (including the stock axles), what would you expect to get charged?  50 points?

I would expect 25 points for the diff and 25 points for the axles. I personally think the housing should have value as well. If Tech is really giving free axles with a diff swap, that's an issue and that's some pure BS IMO

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41 minutes ago, Snorman said:

I would expect 25 points for the diff and 25 points for the axles. I personally think the housing should have value as well. If Tech is really giving free axles with a diff swap, that's an issue and that's some pure BS IMO

Hmmm.  I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's how it works and has worked for some time.

 

I'm with you and would rather see that split into 25 and 25.

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2021 proposed rule. There is no point value for a diff housing.

• Differential swap: 25pts for any diff not originally available for your year, make, and model or chassis generation (excluding specialty high-performance models not listed on the VPI table). Includes axles and CV’s.

• Suspension component (not otherwise listed in this table), non-OE: 10 pts per corner per component

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58 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Hmmm.  I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's how it works and has worked for some time.

 

I'm with you and would rather see that split into 25 and 25.

That's just insane. 

So we could claim a 31-spline diff from a later model Mustang then get the 31-spline axles for free and presumably get the entire rear housing for zero points. Just lol. Claim 25 points, get an entire rear axle assembly in the deal. 

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1 hour ago, Snorman said:

I would expect 25 points for the diff and 25 points for the axles. I personally think the housing should have value as well. If Tech is really giving free axles with a diff swap, that's an issue and that's some pure BS IMO


we pay points for motor mounts.. do I get the engine free now too?

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